Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-08-2013, 17:31   #76
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,616
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
FWIW,

One's nose (in normal condition) can detect the odorizer at concentrations many times lower than the minimum explosive limit.

On our boat, the locker is part of the lazarette, sealed off from the hull's interior and incorporating nearly a square foot of vent area which goes directly overboard. Yet when we had an o-ring failure at the tank connection which lead to a very small leak, both Ann and I were able to smell the gas in the cockpit. Quickly fixed, but it gave me some confidence that unless we both had head colds we would detect the smell below decks long before it became a hazard. Of course, we have a detector in the (tiny) bilge as well, but it never has had cause to alarm.

And for Brian (Mr B): that's why marine stoves incorporate thermopile controlled valves that shut of the gas if the flame is extinguished. Glad that you escaped with so little damage!

Propane certainly requires consideration and care, but IMO is far less hazardous than petrol inboard engines.

Cheers,

Jim
FYI. Jim, My boat has all the required Systems for gas leakages, Shut of valves Etc, Etc, It a very good system and does work,

My work truck is a very different animal, Its totally exposed to the air, It cannot get accumulated Gas pockets, So no risk of fire at any stage, It does not have Auto shut off any where,
The gas bottles have Flashback arrestors, So no explosion is possible, It would have burnt till no gas left,

A broken Gas line is one of those things that just happen from time to time,
My post was about a Site Safety Officer that didnt know how to turn a gas Bottle OFF,

Having welded,tested and approved Pressure vessels for 40 years, I think I know a little about them, and how they explode when People who dont know, Play with them,

My biggest one was 12 feet long, 4 feet in Diameter, and tested at 4000 PSI,

The last pressure vessel that exploded here, Took out a 3 story solid brick building and 12 lives, And was in Tassie, Hobart,
__________________

__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 18:59   #77
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
FYI. Jim, My boat has all the required Systems for gas leakages, Shut of valves Etc, Etc, It a very good system and does work,


The last pressure vessel that exploded here, Took out a 3 story solid brick building and 12 lives, And was in Tassie, Hobart,
Brian, that is interesting about the building explosion. Do you have a reference to the incident? I'd like to find out more about it.

Jim
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 20:46   #78
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,616
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Brian, that is interesting about the building explosion. Do you have a reference to the incident? I'd like to find out more about it.

Jim
It was a 3 story Convent, In Hobart, Possibly 40 years ago now, The only thing left standing was the base the Boiler sat on,

From Memory, The Nuns were doing Contract cleaning, Sheets, bedding from Hospitals Etc,
Idiot running the Boiler, They are Ticketed as a Boiler Operator, and were then also,
It came under the DLI then, Govt Body for Pressure vessels, Very Stringent,

Same Dept I got my welding Certs from, Recognised by Loyds of London,
Ships Surveyors world wide,

This Idiot loaded up the pressure relief valve till the boiler blew its top,
They found the relief valve still dangling weights in the wreckage,

I know of quite a few Explosions over the years, Some almost, But I would never put any thing like that in print, No I wasnt involved,

It was front page news at the time, Probably world wide, No internet back then,

It was a big shake up in the Boiler Industry, after that,
__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 21:17   #79
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,432
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

In reference to post 56/Footloose. The common cockpit gas locker, often used as the helmsmans seat is only safe if the vents actually go over the side. I discovered that my drains tapped into the cockpit drains. Gas is heavier than air, but it is lighter than water, so if you drain into a cockpit drain, you can have a gas build up that can fill the cockpit and potentialy the boat. Check your system, if it does not drain above the water line on all points of sail, it is hazerdous. _____2 cents worth.____Grant.
__________________
gjordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2013, 22:37   #80
Registered User
 
svmariane's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently in South Pacific. Home Port: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Celestial, Stay'sl-Rigged Sloop, 48 ft
Posts: 1,163
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

We have two 10 pounders that fit into a propane locker with an overboard drain. We also have a 5 pound BBQ tank and a 20 pounder that are both tied to the rail. We use a custom-made extension hose for the deck units to feed the "house" connection when the little guys go dry. Or if the big guy is needed for the BBQ.

But hey, what do I know... I'm just meandering around and island hopping across the Pacific. Who knows where the next refill area might be, and even if the supply ship came around lately?

I say: put the tanks where they suit your style, keeping in mind a safe way for leaking gas to go overboard.

And I don't care what others think about how it "looks" to them as an observer. Unless they care to cough up some cash for a refit.

James
__________________
"Being offended is not the same thing as being right." Dave Barry.
Note: Offense is always taken, never given.
When life hands you lemons..... add gin & tonic!
svmariane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 08:24   #81
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,616
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Brian, that is interesting about the building explosion. Do you have a reference to the incident? I'd like to find out more about it.

Jim
1974 it was, Google, Hobart explosion in convent,
__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 08:38   #82
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

OK, Brian, now I understand why I couldn't place the incident: 39 years ago and an overpressured boiler... in response to a thread about propane lockers and their safety.

That was long before I even knew where Hobart even was, and was sailing about in a daysailer dinghy!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 09:26   #83
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,616
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
OK, Brian, now I understand why I couldn't place the incident: 39 years ago and an overpressured boiler... in response to a thread about propane lockers and their safety.

That was long before I even knew where Hobart even was, and was sailing about in a daysailer dinghy!

Jim
It was more the explosion side of things with the gas, Jim,

Petrol and Gas, They are both scary on a boat, Any Boat,
__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 10:37   #84
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
It was more the explosion side of things with the gas, Jim,

Petrol and Gas, They are both scary on a boat, Any Boat,
Imagine how scary I think boating is after being a USCG helo pilot for 20 years and another 11 years as an assistance towing captain.

It's not scary...it just has to be managed and maintained.
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 10:48   #85
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,351
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
recently,maybe it was in this thread a converse of the 1 pound tanks.
You know.....i have never smelled more propane smell than i have from one of those little green bomb tanks.
why are we so worried about propane tank leakage while allowing these 1 pounders?
is it because its mainstream that makes it acceptable?

are there sheep amoung us?
I'm not sure I completely understand your post, but yeah.... I would never use those green tanks below decks.... they do seem to leak a bit sometimes where they screw on...
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 12:00   #86
Registered User
 
hooligan6a's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jacksonville F
Boat: Allied Seawind 32
Posts: 281
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

I have been sailing for over fifty years and only know of 2 maybe 3 boats that blew
because of propane. one blew the deck right off the hull and the skipper out into the cockpit. but he lived. Your right "as long as it is maintained" it is safe.
__________________
hooligan6a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 12:08   #87
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Just like the screw on ones for a camp stove....the tiny bit that leaks out hooking them up is no where's near enough to do anything but get a wiff...

Store them above decks in a protected but not sealed or vented to below decks and again...perfectly safe if you have any concept of safety and the pieces and parts.
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 19:13   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,616
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Imagine how scary I think boating is after being a USCG helo pilot for 20 years and another 11 years as an assistance towing captain.

It's not scary...it just has to be managed and maintained.
It is scary for me, As I watch what people do with Petrol and Gas,

Mainly from power boats, and I have seen heaps that were chaff afterwards,
They go Bang in a big way,

We have a lot of big inland fresh water ways and Big sea bays, With Skiers, Fishermen and race boats, Etc,Etc,

So a lot of power boats, With a lot of amateurs aboard, So it gets very scary what some of these people do,

And the contraptions they have in them to make them go, Been there, Hahahaha.

Being a Helo pilot and a Towing Captain, You have seen the things I think are scary,

From a very nice day with family to Tragedy in Seconds, And there are a lot of them here, Burnt boats,

You cant manage or maintain any thing if you dont know any thing about it, And So many people just dont have a clue,

And a lot of Boaties, irrespective of Boat, Are floating time bombs, Just waiting for the one spark to set it all off,
__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 19:48   #89
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: Propane Placement Poses A Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
It is scary for me, As I watch what people do with Petrol and Gas,

Mainly from power boats, and I have seen heaps that were chaff afterwards,
They go Bang in a big way,

We have a lot of big inland fresh water ways and Big sea bays, With Skiers, Fishermen and race boats, Etc,Etc,

So a lot of power boats, With a lot of amateurs aboard, So it gets very scary what some of these people do,

And the contraptions they have in them to make them go, Been there, Hahahaha.

Being a Helo pilot and a Towing Captain, You have seen the things I think are scary,

From a very nice day with family to Tragedy in Seconds, And there are a lot of them here, Burnt boats,

You cant manage or maintain any thing if you dont know any thing about it, And So many people just dont have a clue,

And a lot of Boaties, irrespective of Boat, Are floating time bombs, Just waiting for the one spark to set it all off,
I rarely think or care about other boats and their "scary" captains...unless a boat blows or burns next to me...no big deal usually.

Most comments posted here are about our own boats and how we use /install/maintain our boat systems...not the world full of knuckleheads....

And if you think most boats are time bombs...you probably look up for meteor strikes too....
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2013, 20:36   #90
Registered User
 
CPseudonym's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Northern California
Boat: Owens
Posts: 204
Never ceases to amaze me how many "forum experts" forget the "fact" that boats have been gas powered for nearly 100 years and am willing to bet over 70% of boats world wide under 40 feet are too. If gas boats are so hazardous and so many attorneys own them, it stands to reason an enterprising one would have put Sea Ray or Bayliner out of business by now with a product liability lawsuit.
__________________

__________________
Insert witty line here

Craig
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
propane

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.