Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-09-2013, 13:55   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
New portable gas tank question

We bought a new outboard and it came with a 3gal plastic gas tank. It has been many years since I have bought a dinghy gas tank and this didn't look very different.

However, there is a difference. The small vent screw on the filler cap has a rubber one-way duckbill valve in it. Air can enter the tank, but gas vapors cannot leave the tank.

The result in the 95* sun here is that the tank becomes a basketball and rolls around the dinghy. I end up unscrewing the main filler cap and leaving it loose on the tank to let the pressure out.

I have reread the instructions that came with the tank many, many times (I mean, how many instructions are necessary to operate a gas tank?). The instructions say to tighten the main cap after filling and loosen the vent cap. They also say that "As part of the fuel vapor retention system your tank will expand under internal pressures. This is normal."

REALLY? To turn into a beachball and roll around the dinghy is now "normal" for new tanks?

My question is: has anyone else experienced this, and am I doing something wrong?

Tomorrow, I am pulling out that rubber duckbill one-way valve.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2013, 13:59   #2
Registered User
 
s/v Moondancer's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Fiji but heading for Alaska
Boat: Tayana 55
Posts: 1,225
Re: New portable gas tank question

You just have to keep the rain out...Cut the bottom off a coke bottle of the same diameter as the cap after you pull put the valve or just leave the cap a little loose.
__________________

__________________
Phil

"Remember, experience only means that you screw-up less often."
s/v Moondancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2013, 14:18   #3
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: New portable gas tank question

Sounds like the eviro-nazis struck again. About 10 years ago they came up with this "no spill" spout for gas containers (not fuel tanks) that was supposed to stop fuel spills when transferring fuel.

Only thing was they didn't work. Even Chcuk Hawley from West Marine tested them and said: "Nope!"

Only thing: they still make them and you can't buy anything else here in California. I'm glad I kept my old one, 'cuz it works. And I don't spill. There was nothing wrong with the old ones if you were the slightest bit careful. Now even those of us who are super careful HAVE to spill 'cuz the f*uckers just don't work.

Arrgh, progress...
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2013, 15:10   #4
Registered User
 
Wraith_Mac's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia
Boat: Avon Rib, 65hp
Posts: 304
Re: New portable gas tank question

I just checked all my 30litre tanks and none of them have that, not even the newer one.
They all have entrapped manual relief screws in the cap and none of them distort to the extent you describe when closed.
I have vented tanks by using a small screw in nipple [in the cap] and fuel hose to the top of the transom, this was with older tanks that did distort somewhat.
The vented cap stayed on the boat and was rotated to the tank in use. ie not used for transport.
Cumbersome but effective, I eventually plugged a fuel filter into the end of the hose, a Z14a I think, to give some protection at the transom, it worked well.
Cheers,
Mac
__________________
Wraith_Mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2013, 18:56   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer View Post
You just have to keep the rain out...Cut the bottom off a coke bottle of the same diameter as the cap after you pull put the valve or just leave the cap a little loose.
+1. You cant close tank vents here in the tropics without over pressurizing the tank. A rain "hat" is a good solution.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 08:06   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,767
We've got three of those new EPA compliant tanks. I've pulled the valves on two of them. The third is still unused.
Welcome to the new world of progress, where you can't pour your fuel without a special valve, outboard fuel hoses are now gray and Łber stiff and fuel tanks threaten to explode and shower you with gasoline!!!
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 08:28   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: New portable gas tank question

I am not closing the tank - I unscrew the vent screw in the top of the filler cap. The problem is that vent screw has a one-way valve in it that only allows air to enter the tank - not fuel vapors to escape.

I found yesterday that there is also a pressure-relief valve system in the tank that does relieve the fuel vapor pressure. However, it is set to relieve before the tank actually splits open, and not just when it becomes a beach ball.

The instructions say this is normal.

I think I will just pull out that one-way valve and the tank will operate just like our old ones. Also, the old tank fill caps fit on the new one, so that isn't a problem either.

I had just never seen this before and wondered if there was something wrong with our particular tank.

WraithMac - these tanks are designed to fulfill some type of California law that went into effect in 2012, so it is doubtful you have them where you are.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 08:31   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: New portable gas tank question

I've had this little guy for a couple of years and have been quite happy with it. It's left out in the sun most of its life and gets torrential rain otherwise. They have difference sizes I think. My little 2hp four stroke goes through maybe 1/2 a gallon a week (~15 minutes of full speed a day).

Amazon.com : No-Spill 1415 1-1/4-Gallon Poly Gas Can (CARB Compliant) : Outdoor Power Gas Cans : Patio, Lawn & Garden
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 08:33   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: New portable gas tank question

It's the "green button makes it easy" models. The only problems I've read online is that from constant expansion eventually it fatigues the seams (in like 5 years) and leaks. If it's $20 and lasts for years of abuse, I'm good with that.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 08:48   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: New portable gas tank question

Those aren't the kind I am talking about. Ours is similar to this: Amazon.com: Moeller OEM Choice EPA Portable Fuel Tank (3.2-Gallon): Sports & Outdoors

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 08:54   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: New portable gas tank question

I just looked at the FAQ section on Moeller tanks and saw this:

My new Moeller above deck tank swells up like a balloon. Why?
New EPA requirements have eliminated the manual open atmospheric vent on the portable fuel tank. The tank now is required to hold up to 5 psi. before automatic pressure relief. The portable tank can handle up to 15 psi.

I'm not sure you understand my situation. My tank cannot be venting.
It may vent during the diurnal temperature cycles of the day. You may also manually relieve the pressure before removing the cap by using the momentary push knob on the top of the tank. With the tank not being able to vent into the atmosphere under 5 psi, the EPA has calculated that the total amount of hydrocarbon emission reduction per portable fuel tank is acceptable. This reduction greatly reduces air quality issues.

Our tank is not a Moeller, so does not have that push knob relief. Even if it did, I wouldn't be sitting in the dinghy all day pushing it.

So it looks like balloon behavior is normal. It also looks like I will be removing that stupid valve!

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 10:27   #12
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,767
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: New portable gas tank question

and yŠll laugh at me for rowing---lol .even my not chargeable torqueedo is better than the epa required bs on tanks now--good luck. rainhat on the vent is good. i did that successfully, have fun

my torqueedo doesnt charge because of some kind of connection defect ...
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 10:58   #13
Registered User
 
Wraith_Mac's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia
Boat: Avon Rib, 65hp
Posts: 304
Re: New portable gas tank question

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post

WraithMac - these tanks are designed to fulfill some type of California law that went into effect in 2012, so it is doubtful you have them where you are.Mark
I guessed that Mark,when you described the duckbill, then a couple of posters made it quite clear.
Hopefully we may never see that system here.
In some ways California is a separate planet I think.

For those who don't know, summers in Australia get a little warmer than many tropical regions will ever get. The humidity usually is a lot less though still a factor in fuel storage.
The temperature affects the tanks, the humidity affects the contents as the tank cools, which is why I vent my tanks through a filter as described above and not a rain hat.
Cheers,
Mac
__________________
Wraith_Mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 11:35   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post

...

So it looks like balloon behavior is normal. It also looks like I will be removing that stupid valve!

Mark
Geez, they went and made fuel tanks complicated...glad I dont live in the land of excessive regulation anymore...most of my fuel tanks are just plastic tanks w holes in the cap for the hose...slightly oversized hole vents just fine.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2013, 12:42   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: New portable gas tank question

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Geez, they went and made fuel tanks complicated...
Our new one came with multipage instructions! Instructions for a fuel tank - I have never seen that before!

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.