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Old 04-03-2010, 15:55   #16
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So, where do you store your dinghy?

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 04-03-2010, 16:14   #17
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So, where do you store your dinghy?
Crossin the Gulf Stream we usually lift it up on the foredeck upside down: Snug fit for a 310, but it fits.
Had the lifelines cut on one side and made a "gate" between the stanchions so we don't have to lift the dink over the lifelines, makes it much easier.

If good conditons we tow the dink, but don't like towing with the motor attached, unless short distances.

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Would a lifting outboard motor bracket(the type used on trailerable sailboats) work on your transom?Up for storage and down for transfering to the dinghy.
Interesting idea, have to look into that.
The initiall thought is that the motor would be vulnerable to maneuvering in close quarters, which I do quite a bit.

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Old 04-03-2010, 17:15   #18
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I have seen a Morgan with a bracket on the mast but didn't like it a bit. I would shove the outboard in an old sailbag and tie it off on the cabin roof.

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Old 04-03-2010, 19:51   #19
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G'Day CSY,

We've dealt with a series of 15 hp 2-stroke o/b motors over the years, weights around 75 +/- lbs. Our method is to tie the dink alongside at the shrouds, attach the halyard via a simple harness stitched up out of 1 inch webbing (that stays on the motor) and then lift the motor off the transom. Once clear, I start walking aft, pushing the motor ahead of me until I reach the bracket which is on the outside of the stern rail. Meanwhile, Ann has wound the halyard up a couple of feet, matching a mark on the line to one on the mast. This brings the o/b's mount just above the bracket, I hold it in place and she eases it down in place. Easy enough with 75 lbs, should be a piece of cake with 43!

The bracket is made up out of marine ply and is held on to the rail with u-bolts.

Reversing this process gets it back on the dinghy without strain. The only difficulty is if there is a big chop running and the dinghy is bouncing... then some cooperation and timing is necessary! It's a good exercise in marital relationhips!

AS to the idea of mast-mounting -- do you reef or hiost sails from the mast or from the cockpit? I'd not like to have to work around an o/b while doing those things on my boat.

Good luck with it, I'm sure that a workable scheme will come to you.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Church Point, NSW, Oz
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Old 04-03-2010, 20:38   #20
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Davits. What is the price of back strain or a dingy you can't use?

We can put the tender on deck, but very seldom do. I might as well leave it home, as I would never use it. Design good davits, with as much purchase as it takes. Moves some stores forward for balance, as needed.

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No better solution. A big engine is like a voluntary MOB practice, with sharp corners.
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Old 05-03-2010, 00:02   #21
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We can put the tender on deck, but very seldom do. I might as well leave it home, as I would never use it. Design good davits, with as much purchase as it takes. Moves some stores forward for balance, as needed.

Sail Delmarva: Search results for "better purchase"

No better solution. A big engine is like a voluntary MOB practice, with sharp corners.
That's interesting to see that you leave the outboard on the dinghy even in the davits. We have a similar problem to the OP. Our boat, acquired last year, has a large dinghy compared to what we are used to (a console-steered Avon 310 RIB), with a very large and heavy motor compared to what we are used to (a 25hp Mariner, weighing more than 100 pounds). The motor would not be a snap to get off the transom of the dinghy, as it is connected to a steering mechanism.

There is no outboard crane on board. So we have been leaving the outboard in place and lifting the dinghy cum outboard into the Simpson davits the boat came with. The davits pull the dink up very tight and it seems to be very stable even with the heavy outboard hanging off it. We have been out in even very heavy weather, and the dink seemed rock solid in the davits.

But I have a lingering feeling that this is not good practice. We always took our outboards off and hung them on the pushpit, to lighten the load and potential swinging loads on the davits. Even without the outboard, I always thought you shouldn't have the dink hanging off the stern on passage, and with the outboard . . . . Not to hijack this thread, but what do you guys think?
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:30   #22
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It depends on how high up the dinghy gets. Often, with davits it isn't high enough and you risk loosing it in a bad storm at sea. But even then I wouldn't say to put it on deck instead. I would rather loose my dinghy while it's in the davits then deal with it on deck while working there in a storm.

We hoist the dinghy up in the radar arch and the dinghy is higher up that way. The inflated tubes are above the pulpit. We have had no problem with following 15-20' steep seas (only spray reached that high) and the dinghy survived a cat4 hurricane there without too much trouble (seat was gone and the cover ripped to pieces).

For long passages (more than 1 night) I do remove the outboard. A 25hp isn't a problem when you use a halyard (or dedicated hoist) for that and it doesn't really matter if you have 15hp or 25hp because to handle the 15hp safely you need the halyard too.

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Old 05-03-2010, 09:32   #23
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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
It depends on how high up the dinghy gets. Often, with davits it isn't high enough and you risk loosing it in a bad storm at sea. But even then I wouldn't say to put it on deck instead. I would rather loose my dinghy while it's in the davits then deal with it on deck while working there in a storm.

We hoist the dinghy up in the radar arch and the dinghy is higher up that way. The inflated tubes are above the pulpit. We have had no problem with following 15-20' steep seas (only spray reached that high) and the dinghy survived a cat4 hurricane there without too much trouble (seat was gone and the cover ripped to pieces).

For long passages (more than 1 night) I do remove the outboard. A 25hp isn't a problem when you use a halyard (or dedicated hoist) for that and it doesn't really matter if you have 15hp or 25hp because to handle the 15hp safely you need the halyard too.

cheers,
Nick.
That's kind of what we were thinking. On a long passage I would at least hoist the outboard and store it in the laz. That way it will be even more stable. But the davits only get the boat a couple meters above the waterline. I'm afraid the dinghy might be toast in a really big following sea. We've been in really ferocious wind conditions with the dinghy up there, but we were in the Solent so the sea state was not horrible.

I guess for anything really rough we would need to get the dinghy onto the afterdeck somehow. Maybe some chocks and stout tie-downs would do it.

We are fortunate to have an open area on the after deck where the dinghy would fit. I agree with you about dinghys on the foredeck -- last thing you need if you some challenging work to do up there in a storm.

Another thing I thought about was deflating it in the davits. It seems to me that it's the buoyancy which would destroy it, if it were covered by a huge following see in the davits.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:44   #24
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The waves lift your boat before getting to the dinghy. Only a huge breaker is steep enough to take the dinghy.

Putting it on your aft deck is a good solution... you're lucky to have that space. You should put it upside down, holding it down at the stern with a steel or spectra cable and a cargo strap with tensioner 1/3 from the bow. Use through-bolted padeyes on deck and dinghy transom.

When the boat doesn't have the aft deck option, I would take the risk and keep it in the davits because other solutions lead to more serious risks imo.

cheers,
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:48   #25
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Here's a few pictures. You can see that some motor lifts are very versatile in their mounting design. To get under the canopy, this person has mounted their crane low and the compression strut is below the rail. This means that he can only get 180 degree rotation, versus the usual 360, but he is able to keep everything neat and where he wants it. A similar system/design could be used to mount the motor underneath your solar panels.

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That's interesting to see that you leave the outboard on the dinghy even in the davits.
That really should be part of the weight factor when you work out what set of davits are for you. The boat, the motor, the fuel, the gear. That's the weight.

Generally if it all that adds up to less than 250 lbs, you can mount a good set of rail davits that will get the boat up to 66" off where you mount the base (picture with the blue dinghy).

Now, I understand that we're talking about water sailing">blue water sailing, and in that case we would definitely recommend going to a cast set of davits that mount either to the deck or transom. Some manufacturers have optional riser arms, which is the lower arm in the picture (the one with the 9.9hp merc), at varying lengths. This effectively means that you can get the dinghy as high out of the water as you want. Two risers can even be stacked when you're working with less than 300lbs.

Having the dinghy on deck versus on davits presents a few challenges and still fewer advantages. It is obviously more secure up on deck, though if you know that your going blue water sailing then you can work that into the strength of the davits. The dinghy won't fill up with water, a problem which can be avoided by pulling a drain plug, using a solar-auto bailer or a cover. Then you still have a large portion of your deck being taken up. Let alone the fact that it's that much more of a hassle to get the dinghy in and out of the water.

From a less professional experience; I've found that I probably use the dinghy at least 3 times more than I would if it were on deck. Basically, the dinghy becomes like a little car on the water. There is so much more to explore when its a simple 2 minute proceedure from saying, "gee, I wonder whats behind that bay?" to being on your way there. That's really the main advantage as far as my own personal experience is concerned.
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Old 05-03-2010, 13:21   #26
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Yes, there are lots of factors to consider. Great responses.

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That's interesting to see that you leave the outboard on the dinghy even in the davits. We have a similar problem to the OP. Our boat, acquired last year, has a large dinghy compared to what we are used to (a console-steered Avon 310 RIB), with a very large and heavy motor compared to what we are used to (a 25hp Mariner, weighing more than 100 pounds). The motor would not be a snap to get off the transom of the dinghy, as it is connected to a steering mechanism.

There is no outboard crane on board. So we have been leaving the outboard in place and lifting the dinghy cum outboard into the Simpson davits the boat came with. The davits pull the dink up very tight and it seems to be very stable even with the heavy outboard hanging off it. We have been out in even very heavy weather, and the dink seemed rock solid in the davits.

But I have a lingering feeling that this is not good practice. We always took our outboards off and hung them on the pushpit, to lighten the load and potential swinging loads on the davits. Even without the outboard, I always thought you shouldn't have the dink hanging off the stern on passage, and with the outboard . . . . Not to hijack this thread, but what do you guys think?
Strength of the davits. Well, you really should know what they are rated for. I did an evaluation of mine, largely because another PDQ owner asked me to. they were going to mount a wind vane and solar panels:
Sail Delmarva: Search results for "how strong is she"
In my case they are quite strong and can handle a pretty good wave strike, if that were to happen. But if you already have panels and such loaded on there, well, you have made a decision. The davits may be near their limit. They weren't built for all that, perhaps.

Location is a factor. On catamarans the dingy is in between the hulls, forward of the transom, so following waves are a minor factor. I cannot speak to monohulls, but I would consider a design that brought the dingy well forward. Strange, I have never seen it done. All you can do is go high.

Swinging should not be a problem if it is secured. We always lash the dingy if it's rough - I don't want any movement.

Removing the engine... I don't understand. If you think it could come off, bolt it on! It should be no more likely to come off than any other run-about. The transom should easily manage the weight, and in my case the lifting point was perfectly located. If I had a bigger motor, I might provide a 2-point anchor. As for the load on the davits, they are either strong enough or not. Add a brace if needed, on that side only. If you think the engine is going to get hit by a wave... well, then the dingy really needs to come off.

I don't really see this as a thread hyjack. Davits are often a cobbled-on after thought rather than a designed in part of the boat. That's a shame for cruisers, for something we use every day. They should be as well thought out as the standing rig. We shouldn't have to mess about with the halyard and finding a place for the tender and motor on deck. It's too important. The solution doesn't have to be davits, but it should be well thought out, safe, and easy. Cod fishing boats certainly had no trouble lunching dories with tackle over the side.
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