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Old 14-05-2013, 19:28   #76
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About 12 boat bucks.
EEK! $12k for a 4hp outboard?!! Good gods I'm so happy to be here not there :thumbs:
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Old 14-05-2013, 19:29   #77
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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They are still at genetically modifying the type of tree they selected for this. The goal is to make it easy for bacteria to get the cellulose out of the wood. But it sounded like they are close to finished with that.. Or can improve along the way. Then they will need to start planting etc. so it's many years away still.
Its likely they are genetically modifying trees but some of its huge potential comes from working in existing crops/ forestry processing tree thinning, waste etc and also utilising by products such a corn and sugar cane trash and even growing algae. The Brazillian sugar industry is doing a lot of work and there are other processes being worked on that don't use bacteria. In Australia the sugar industry has twodifferent projects trying to nail it as well.

Despite all work I don't think anyone has cracked it yet despite plenty suggesting they are close.

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Old 14-05-2013, 19:34   #78
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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EEK! $12k for a 4hp outboard?!! Good gods I'm so happy to be here not there :thumbs:
No, that would be 12 big boat bucks...
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Old 14-05-2013, 20:09   #79
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Apparently it takes a lot of diesel to harvest and transport the corn, trees and sugar cane. I hope they are factoring in the pollution created by the burning of Diesel to produce this ethanol against the pollution saved by the burning of ethanol.
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Old 14-05-2013, 20:16   #80
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Avgas is available to the general public, but it is very expensive and contains lead. The lead content is minimal, but if you run it consistently it will reduce the life of the motor, lead is nasty stuff even in small doses.

He probably thought it was the easiest ethanol free gas to obtain, which is true in some areas. I still wouldn't run it though.
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Old 14-05-2013, 20:55   #81
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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When you go out cruising a bit further from 1st world homes you will notice that things are different. Some things will be shocking, everything will be eye opening. Same for outboards. You will start to notice outboards that are not for sale "at home" like the Yamaha Enduro series. These will burn any gas quality, brackets will not fall off, parts will be available, local shops know how to fix them if need be, life will be good. 15hp seems to be the ticket
My Trinidadian friend bought an Enduro 15 at Bequia race week because his Honda wouldn't start. It ran fine, then he went back home ran the fuel out of it, and let it sat around for a year. Come the next race week, the Yammie ran like crap and it fell to me to figure out why. Pulled the carb, and the float was varnished to the bottom of the chamber because what was left of the old gas had evaporated (not E10--they don't waste ethanol on engines in Trinidad). I was impressed with the Enduro--it was made to fix easily with very simple tools.

My last kicker was a Tohatsu 3.5 two-stroke bought in Trinidad for $450 in 2009. Its predecessor was the same engine without a neutral, which lasted 14 years around the world but succumbed to being caught under the dock in Tobago when the swell came up. Great little engine at 28 pounds, and would plane my RIB with just me in it.

In my limited experience, outboards cost a lot more in the US than outside it--maybe the Japanese are still mad at us for winning WWII.
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Old 14-05-2013, 21:41   #82
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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You know the saying about a pessimist: it's an optimist with experience
...or with an opinion
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Old 14-05-2013, 22:15   #83
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

It's a good tip to disconnect/shut off the fuel supply and let it run out. Sometimes an outboard/chainsaw etc won't start after being laid up for a while, if you can turn it upside down and give it a good hard shake then reconnect the fuel line with fresh fuel it will fire up, when fuel is left it dries out and the float sticks in the carb and the shake free's it off. It's not a cure all but has saved me a lot of work on occasions, and to cap it all the tip was given to me by a woman ! She's now part of the crew, amazing what you find fixing engines for a hobby........
We're not all as lucky as bobconnie to have alcohol free gas available.
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Old 15-05-2013, 07:37   #84
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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................. We're not all as lucky as bobconnie to have alcohol free gas available.
Many marinas sell unadulterated (ethanol free) gasoline.
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Old 15-05-2013, 08:01   #85
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

I'm thinking half the problem is the operator. Folks are so spoiled with the cars we drive these days. You just turn the key and it starts. No more choke, etc. to mess with.

I have a 2011 Mercury 4 stoke 5 hp (pull start) and it runs fine on the 10% ethanol fuel. I don't run it out of fuel after use or anything special like that. I do run it at full throttle from time to time to blow out the jets. Also my engine rarely gets run more than 10 minutes which you would think wouldn't be good but the engine runs fine..........

I ran out last years fuel a month ago when the wind died. No problems. Btw, the engine has not been serviced yet except I did add some lower unit oil and some engine oil. I have poured in a little stay bill here and there but it may not have gotten put in all my containers. I have never used any in my vehicles one of which only get used here and there some weekends.
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Old 15-05-2013, 08:11   #86
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

"You can't stabilize old fuel and you can't bring old fuel back to new condition. "
Half true, the latter half only. While it is best to stabilize fresh fuel, adding stabilizer will "turn off the clock" and if you do that to 60-day-old fuel, it will stop the clock at that point and keep the fuel "that" good instead of letting it age more. StaBil even condones that.

You can also add stabilizer after the fuel is in the tank if the car is fuel injected. Add the stabilizer and as much fresh fuel as you can, to stir it up. Give it a while to permeate, then run the engine for a while. With so many modern cars being fuel injected, there's a return line on the fuel tank and MOST of the fuel gets returned to the tank, where it stirs things up. No, that's not perfect but again, it beats nothing.

And rocking the car on its springs, to slosh the contents of the tank around and mix it up, will alos help. It isn't totally helpless to add stabilizer after the thought. It can still help a lot.
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Old 15-05-2013, 08:20   #87
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

I know a lot of folks use sta-bil, I have used it too.

Boat US did a study on fuel additives, and found none of them prevented phase separation. You can not simply mix the ethanol back into the fuel once it separates out, and according to boat us, the additives do not prevent it from happening.

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"You can't stabilize old fuel and you can't bring old fuel back to new condition. "
Half true, the latter half only. While it is best to stabilize fresh fuel, adding stabilizer will "turn off the clock" and if you do that to 60-day-old fuel, it will stop the clock at that point and keep the fuel "that" good instead of letting it age more. StaBil even condones that.

You can also add stabilizer after the fuel is in the tank if the car is fuel injected. Add the stabilizer and as much fresh fuel as you can, to stir it up. Give it a while to permeate, then run the engine for a while. With so many modern cars being fuel injected, there's a return line on the fuel tank and MOST of the fuel gets returned to the tank, where it stirs things up. No, that's not perfect but again, it beats nothing.

And rocking the car on its springs, to slosh the contents of the tank around and mix it up, will alos help. It isn't totally helpless to add stabilizer after the thought. It can still help a lot.
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Old 15-05-2013, 08:24   #88
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Here is a link to the condensed article:

BoatUS Magazine: Three Ethanol Myths Clarified

Quote:
....contrary to statements made by some companies that produce fuel additives, there are no additives that can make stale or phase-separated gasoline usable.....
This quote speaks to restoration, the full version addresses prevention.
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Old 15-05-2013, 08:52   #89
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Faith, I think BA's article is, frankly, poorly written and easily misleading. It seems like what he is failing to make clear, is that the phase separation he is talking about is from condensate forming in the tank, mixing into the E10, and overwhelming the ethanol's "carrying" capacity for the water.

You can extract that from his article but not easily or concisely and only if you ignore a lot of apparently contradictory snippets along the way.

So, from that point of view? Sure, once the E10 has become supersaturated, phase separation will occur. And once it reaches that point, there's no way to
"undersaturate" it without either adding a *load more alcohol or mechanically removing the water.

That's like complaining that E10 won't help remove sand from your fuel tank. OK, we all know there's only so much "dry gas" can do, bfd.

I'd call his article "Three Ethanol Myths, Compounded and Obfusticated".

Bottom line, whether it is E10 or E0, water in the gas (or diesel) isn't a good thing.
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Old 15-05-2013, 08:57   #90
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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Fun game: on that last trip out to he boat before cruising away try to guess how far away to disconnect the fuel hose so you just make it there. About 100m for me.
Hey! I thought I'd invented that game.

I'm getting pretty good at it, regardless.
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