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Old 14-05-2013, 12:52   #61
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Add Mercs 5hp 4/stroke to the POS category, rebuilt that carb six times already.
I wish Weed Eater would make an outboard. My 15 year old, 6.5hp wheel saggin, rusted out body, rare oil changed, pull starter frayed 4/stroke, oil encrusted, lawnmower still starts on the first and second pull with older gas from an old five gallon can and have never rebuilt the carb yet.
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Old 14-05-2013, 13:25   #62
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Best thing about my Honda was selling it to an unsuspecting Frenchman

Complete POS. Brute to start, tiny fuel tank, so always had to cart the fuel can about; noisy, all the bolts tightened by a sumo wrestler, so the nuts stripped the plastic and you could never get them out, that daft clutch arrangement so one crashed coming alongside.

Replaced with a 3.3 Mariner 2 stroke. Bliss.
I have to disagree. Our Honda 2.3 is 13 years old. It always starts fine even after months of neglect. It pushes our 10' solid dink with 5 people in without difficulty at about 5 knots.

The centrifugal clutch gets a lot of adverse comments, but it's worth learning to use the throttle gently - it's possible to just slip the clutch at the right rpm and get a very fine control over forward drive. No more demanding than using manual clutch on a car - it becomes second nature with a bit of practice.

What have I replaced in thirteen years? One spark plug at about year eleven. Nothing else (other than oil each year). The only thing I am careful to do is run the carb dry at the end of each day - something others seem to find beneficial too.
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Old 14-05-2013, 13:47   #63
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

It's strange how a bunch of people can talk about the same product (Honda 4 stroke) and have such wildly different opinions of it. I'm glad I bought mine before reading this thread. I might have missed out on a sweet little motor.
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Old 14-05-2013, 13:56   #64
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

I think I'd give the dealer a taste of his own medicine. By writing to Honda-US and telling them that the dealer has informed you in very clear and specific terms that the engine they sold, and you bought, for the intended use on the US market is unsuitable for that use because it must be run on aviation gasoline, which is not available to the general public. Since under federal warranty laws, if the engine is unfit for the use it was sold for you want them to buy it back and give you a full refund, as per the law. And that if this is true, you will have to report this to state and federal authorities and demand a full recall of all similar Homda engines.

Someone at Honda may open a can of whoopass on that dealer.

Then if they are smart, they'll also do something to make nice to you.

The dealer is full of it and if Honda gets enough complaints--he won't be a dealer forever.
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Old 14-05-2013, 14:28   #65
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I think I'd give the dealer a taste of his own medicine. By writing to Honda-US and telling them that the dealer has informed you in very clear and specific terms that the engine they sold, and you bought, for the intended use on the US market is unsuitable for that use because it must be run on aviation gasoline, which is not available to the general public. Since under federal warranty laws, if the engine is unfit for the use it was sold for you want them to buy it back and give you a full refund, as per the law. And that if this is true, you will have to report this to state and federal authorities and demand a full recall of all similar Homda engines.

Someone at Honda may open a can of whoopass on that dealer.

Then if they are smart, they'll also do something to make nice to you.

The dealer is full of it and if Honda gets enough complaints--he won't be a dealer forever.
The owners manual specifies they type of gas (fuel, not gas if it's E-10) to be used in the motor. It does not specify aviation gas. It specifies "Unleaded gasoline 86 pump octane or higher"

Either someone at the dealership misspoke or the customer misunderstood what the dealer spokesperson said.


http://marine.honda.com/pdf/manuals/00X31ZW66300.pdf
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Old 14-05-2013, 15:38   #66
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Why anyone at the dealership should even mention aviation gasoline, which is leaded gasoline and generally illegal for marine use anyhow, begs the question.

There's no way someone would just "imagine" the word "aviation" unless it was used, is there? And there's no way it could have been appropriately used, is there? Leaded, wrong octane, and not likely to be found near a boat unless there's a seaplane fueling station there.
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Old 14-05-2013, 16:06   #67
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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Darn, We are lucky down the bayou! We have 2 stations selling alcohol free gasoline right in our little town !! We have so many outboards down here it's really nice to be able to just go to the station and fill up! makes all our gas powerd stuff run a lot better and last a lot longer !! It even runs better in 4 strokes !!
Of course it runs better in everything. It has higher BTU/unit than ethanol. Put it in your car and your milage goes up. We are paying subsidies to farmers and fermenters to dilute our fuel with junk that ALSO ruins our engines. Thank God for the FAA. Absolutely no ethanol is permitted in Av Gas. Ruins their (mostly antique) engines and gaskets and drops the HP to dangerous levels. Fortunately, our marina sells only non-ethanol fuel and at a reasonable price.

It would make more sense & higher efficiency to burn the wood or whatever in a steam boiler and make electricity. The moron who decided that we should obsolete every machine we own in order to run E-85 ought to be sentenced to use one of the original low water toilets in perpetuity.
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Old 14-05-2013, 16:34   #68
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

I haven't seen leaded in gas in close to two decades here on the East Coast. Use StaBil religiously, keep water out of your tanks, and use good filters. Be prepared to clean carburetors frequently. By the way, if you park your car for more than a few weeks, put some StaBil in the tank too--the gas goes bad in the car also. Mine almost wouldn't start after sitting for a month in a boatyard a few years ago.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:18   #69
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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I haven't seen leaded in gas in close to two decades here on the East Coast. Use StaBil religiously, keep water out of your tanks, and use good filters. Be prepared to clean carburetors frequently. By the way, if you park your car for more than a few weeks, put some StaBil in the tank too--the gas goes bad in the car also. Mine almost wouldn't start after sitting for a month in a boatyard a few years ago.
I have been sick and my truck (with E-10 fuel) sat for three months or so without being started. I had to put air in one of the tires, but the engine fired right up when I turned the key. No treatment either.

I do treat the fuel I use in my dinghy and use non-ethanol fuel for it when I can get it without too much trouble.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:24   #70
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Pump gas, even E10, is designed to be used in 60-90 days. By that time some of the components (like heptane and butane) have boiled off BUT sometime back in the 90's I believe the EPA changed the rules for gasoline and the current stuff does not break down as badly as the old stuff in the 70's did.

If a car didn't start after 30 days, it was unlikely to be a fuel quality issue. I will use StaBil when the car is going to be sitting for six months, because I know the gas will be breaking down by then and I'm more concerned about varnish and gums forming. I know six month old gas will still burn without any problem, I just don't want the gums in the system. StaBil will prevent that. But for 60 days, nothing should be needed. Even the folks at StaBil will say that.

And they do make a new formula for gasahols, to prevent the ethanol problems.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:52   #71
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

If you want to stabilize fuel (I use Startron), you have to mix it in when you first purchase the fuel. You can't stabilize old fuel and you can't bring old fuel back to new condition. You also have to run the engine long enough to get the stabilized fuel throughout the fuel system.

In the situation I mentioned, I had no plans on being sick and not starting the truck. It just happened. I realized later that I should have had my wife drive it once a week.
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Old 14-05-2013, 17:58   #72
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It's strange how a bunch of people can talk about the same product (Honda 4 stroke) and have such wildly different opinions of it. I'm glad I bought mine before reading this thread. I might have missed out on a sweet little motor.
My thoughts as well.
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Old 14-05-2013, 18:03   #73
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Old 14-05-2013, 18:52   #74
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

s/v faith - how much was the yammie 4 that you bought at ays? i'm thinking of buying either that or the 2.5 when i'm over there next month...
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Old 14-05-2013, 19:15   #75
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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s/v faith - how much was the yammie 4 that you bought at ays? i'm thinking of buying either that or the 2.5 when i'm over there next month...
About 12 boat bucks. Abaco Yacht Service had 1 4hp left, and a couple of 2's. they were putting in an order for 8s, which is IMHO the best outboard ever made.

I looked for the 4hp all then way up from the BVI's all through the Bahamas... Japan is shipping the next batch of 4s to nassau some time this month. All the dealers south of there get them through Nassau.

Abaco Yacht Service (on Green Turtle) is where I bought these two. I bought from them before, great folks. The motors they sell are the same as the former US spec motors...

BTW, they recommend 50:1 even though they were marketed in the us at 100:1.
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