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Old 10-07-2014, 09:46   #16
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

Here are some pics of my new toy:

Clockwise, Riding on its lines with the new Amsteel synthetic bridle with whoopee slings for precise adjustment of the balance point, the "garage" on my port quarter deck, detail of the whoopee sling attachment to the bow eyes (note the position of the composite propane tank beneath the thwart, the freshwater washing connector, standard on the 15, closeup of the carburetor, not the large purging hole in the center, and last, the LiFePO4 battery with easy access to the terminals. There is a rubber plug covering an available accdess hole, next to the electric start switch, which I will utilize to run an accessory battery cable in the future to allow me to run some modest electronics, running lights, etc.

I have not had a lot of time to play with with this boat, but so far I am a happy camper. I am building a better deck roller to allow speedy launch and retrieval of the dink from the mothership. I can't comment much on the fuel consumption yet, but I have two tanks available for some extensive testing in coming months.
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Old 25-07-2014, 19:07   #17
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

I purchased a Lehr 2.5 hp outboard in Feburary of 2013 to replace a Honda 5 hp outboard on my inflatable dinghy. I was tired of smelling gasoline fumes and the Honda was larger than I needed for our rollup dinghy. Initially, I was quite enthusiastic about the Lehr motor. It solved the gasoline fumes problem, always started on the first or second pull and was quite reliable. I really like the idea of eliminating one of the fuels from my boat, and I already use the propane camping cylinders for my barbeque grill. I found that I had to replace the propane cylinders more than I had expected, but if I ran the motor at a low speed, I could get about two hours of operation from one camping cylinder.

There were minor issues that tempered my enthusiasm a bit. First, Lehr recommends “disconnecting the fuel” after every use. It was not clear to me if that meant removing the small cylinders or (if used) disconnecting a larger external tank. I never used an external tank and left the cylinder in place until empty, partly because I found switching cylinders to be painful to my fingers due to the short hose in the engine and the limited clearance it affords to hold the threaded gas fitting while installing a new cylinder. Eventually, I resorted to removing the top engine cover to replace the cylinder, and then putting it back on after the cylinder was installed.

Another issue (perhaps not unique to Lehr,) is that in salt water, they recommend running fresh water through the engine after every use. This is easier said than done. There is no fitting to attach a garden hose or other water source to introduce cooling water to the engine. And the usual “ear muff like” flushing accessories won’t seal around the water inlet due to protective fins and the small size of the shaft housing. So that left me having to use several gallons of water in a plastic trash can held in place by a strap while I ran the engine attached to the rail of my sailboat. I don’t know what the requirements for other outboards is, but I ran my Honda for entire seasons without rinsing until the end of the season and never had any problems.

All in all, I was very happy with the Lehr outboard for the first season of use. I used it several times per week for the entire 4 months I lived on our sailboat in the Pacific Northwest, and apart from the minor issues above, had no complaints. THIS SEASON, however, is a completely different story,

After being properly put away for storage in the winter, I first attempted to fire up the Lehr on a trip from Washington to Barkely Sound on Vancouver Island. The instant I attached a gas cylinder, I heard and smelled propane shooting out from inside the engine in the vicinity of the fitting for the external tank hose. At the time, I was far from any authorized service location, but desperate to get it running, so I contacted Lehr and got a timely response to my inquiry about repairing the leak with O rings purchased from a hardware store. I was able to replace the seals of the internal fuel line with O rings and new gas compatible Teflon tape, and there were no more leaks. The motor ran fine for about a week.

Then, the motor started becoming difficult to start and was not running well. Finally, when it would not start at all, I tried replacing the spark plug. I was able to start it and it ran badly for about an hour. At the point it died again, and I noticed that the oil had turned white, looking at the oil level inspection glass. At this point, I contacted Lehr again and began the (arduous) process of finding somebody authorized to work on it. There are plenty of stores which sell the Lehr motors, but apparently far fewer that actually service them.

Finally, I was able to get the motor to Harbour Chandlers in Nanaimo and after a brief diagnosis (mainly to be sure I hadn’t dropped it in the water, I suspect,) they ordered new seals and a head gasket. Lehr was able to get them the parts in a timely fashion, only two days including customs, as the parts were shipped from California. The mechanic replaced all relevant seals and the head gasket and (four weeks after the problem arose) I now have a working motor, which once again starts on the first or second pull and seems to run just fine. There was no cost to me, apart from the moorage fees, taxis and time lost on our trip. The engine comes with a three year parts and labor warranty, and they seem to honor that without a problem.

I understand that a Chinese company (Parsun) manufactures this motor for Lehr, and also very similar motors (except for the fuel system) for Yamaha, Tohatsu and other companies. That gives me some confidence that the reliability of everything except the fuel system should be similar to other small outboards on the market, despite my unfortunate experience. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is the last problem I have with this motor and that I get a few good seasons of use from it. My serial number ends in 00090, so I think I have a very early motor. The manufacturing date is shown inside the engine as May 2012, even though I bought it in February 2013. Hopefully, the new motors are less prone to problems.
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Old 25-07-2014, 23:31   #18
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

Auguster, I'm a Lehr dealer and owner and I'd like to comment on some of your concerns.

"Lehr recommends “disconnecting the fuel” after every use. It was not clear to me if that meant removing the small cylinders or (if used) disconnecting a larger external tank."

I've had this discussion with Lehr. They are worried that if something failed in the fuel system, and the engine was stored in an enclosed space, dangerous levels of propane could build up. The same problem could occur with a gasoline engine if it leaked.
What I do is leave the small tank in place as long as it's on the back of my dinghy in a well ventilated area. When I put it in my garage for storage, I remove the small tank.
If I'm using a large tank, and I usually do, I just turn off the valve at the tank. When I store the engine in my garage I disconnect the hose from the engine and store the big tank in a well ventilated area.

"I found switching cylinders to be painful to my fingers due to the short hose in the engine and the limited clearance it affords to hold the threaded gas fitting while installing a new cylinder. Eventually, I resorted to removing the top engine cover to replace the cylinder, and then putting it back on after the cylinder was installed."

It is a bit of a bitch and removing the cover makes it much easier. That's one reason I usually run mine on a remote tank and keep the little bottle in reserve. The other reason is that bulk propane is really cheap and those bottles can be pretty expensive.

"Another issue (perhaps not unique to Lehr,) is that in salt water, they recommend running fresh water through the engine after every use. This is easier said than done. There is no fitting to attach a garden hose or other water source to introduce cooling water to the engine. And the usual “ear muff like” flushing accessories won’t seal around the water inlet due to protective fins and the small size of the shaft housing."

You're right, about the only way to flush that engine is in a trash can filled with water. When I'm using my engine every day as I would on a cruise, I don't worry about flushing it. When I get home and before storing the engine, I flush it in a trash can.

"I contacted Lehr again and began the (arduous) process of finding somebody authorized to work on it. There are plenty of stores which sell the Lehr motors, but apparently far fewer that actually service them."

That's kind of a pet peeve of mine. When I became a Lehr dealer I was required to figure out how to service them and to stock some parts. There is a national chain that sells Lehr that isn't required to provide service. I end up servicing the engines they sold. I don't mind much as they often become my customers after that.

" The engine comes with a three year parts and labor warranty, and they seem to honor that without a problem."

That's true. They know there is a shortage of service centers now and they really support the existing service centers very well. If you know a good outboard mechanic in your area, suggest to him that he might want to service Lehr. They pay very well for warranty work, and have great phone and internet support. I'll be glad to put him in touch with the right people at Lehr. A good outboard mechanic already knows how to fix everything on a Lehr except the carburetor. You don't fix the carburetor on a Lehr, you just replace it. Even I can do that.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. If I don't know the answer, I know the guy who does know.
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Old 26-07-2014, 08:21   #19
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

I, too, have a Lehr outboard, and am just getting familiar with it. Mine is the new 15 HP with electric start (internal LiFePO4 battery). Mine has a freshwater hose fitting on the motor housing, making rinsing a snap, as long as I have access to pressurized fresh water. Even if I didn't, the pressure required is so low that I could probably rig a bucket on top of the cabin and gravity feed enough to do the job. Rinsing ANY outboard is not an option. Eventually, the cooling gallery and the water pump will become damaged by saltwater immersion. I know, from having destroyed a beautiful Honda 9.9 several years ago, from ignorance and laziness.

I, too, had an issue with the engine shortly after commissioning it. The engine began to run roughly, and the oil pressure warning light came on. My engine is #003, probably one of the first of these engines out there. Frustrated, I took the engine to my local authorized service center. They hadn't seen the 15 yet so they weren't sure what was the problem. On a hunch, they replaced the oil pressure sensor. Bingo! Since then, the engine has been performing well, at least for the five hours max I've recently put on it.

Being an early adopter of new technologies, I am familiar with the process of how new stuff needs time to work out bugs. I knew that going into this deal and I haven't been too frustrated with the learning curve. Lehr, and West Marine (who sold me the motor), have been most accommodating in making me a happy and satisfied owner. The concept is brilliant, and the workmanship appears first rate. I'm even a bit surprised how well a Chinese product can perform, knowing that they too are relatively new to this particular niche.

I am in the process of modifying my multihull sailboat to allow me to pull the 10'6" AB RIB out of the water and on to the deck for normal storage. I'm also painting the bottom of the dink with antifouling paint. When this is complete, I intend to do a lot of trials with the boat. West Marine is eager to have me take some of their associates out for a chance to see how this motor performs, since they now sell all of the range from 2.5 to 15 HP.

I'll be passing on my observations, and some pics, in coming weeks. And HopCar, thank you for all of the info you have been relaying to me. It's a great relief to know that the CF denizens have you as a resource working on our side.
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Old 11-08-2014, 18:48   #20
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

A few months back I bought a Lehr 5 hp. At the time (actually maybe a month or two after purchase) I tried it out and all seemed to be well. Up until today it has been sitting clamped to the rail. I had installed a little gas cannister for the first try out where it was run for maybe 15 minutes.
Today, when I tried pulling the starter cord, the only resistance I got was from the retracting spring - the motor was not turning over. I tried all kinds of different things but no joy. Eventually, by accident, I leaned on the housing of the starter cord and after that the cord actually turned over the engine. Hmmmm .... weird .... not sure if I should write that off to the mechanics not being loosened up by use or what.
I then pulled and pulled trying to start this thing until I checked the gas can - empty except for a tiny bit of fizzing through the seal after it was taken off the engine. The gas leakage when removed could very well be because the rubber seal deforms when the cannister is installed for a long time and may take some extra time to seal again (if ever).
I installed a new can of gas still wondering why the old one was empty after having only been used for maybe 15 minutes. I decided to listen to the connection between gas can and motor and definitely heard some leakage. Rearranging things a bit stopped / started the leakage on a semi regular basis. I verified that the nut holding the hose to the can was as hand tight as I could get it but the leakage persisted. I eventually found that the leakage seemed to be between gas can and the adapter that connects to it. There was no burr on the rim of the gas can and the rubber washer on the adapter appeared fine. At this time I am not sure if I have a problem or not - I will wait and try a third cannister of gas. I am somewhat concerned about quality control though and a little red flag went up in the back of my mind about taking the dinghy too far away from the mothership.
Is the gas cannister adapter supposed to be hand tight or is it supposed to be wrenched beyond that (since two cannisters were leaking)?
I was also somewhat disappointed about the range of a single can - I am not sure what I was expecting but going at maybe 1/3 throttle I got (and that is a guess) maybe 40 - 45 minutes of engine run time out of it. I will definitely be using a larger tank even for relatively short hops.
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Old 11-08-2014, 19:54   #21
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

JD1, It sounds like you might have a defective fuel line. Did you smell propane? You shouldn't smell propane unless you're bleeding the system or a little bit when you disconnect the tank.

Contact Lehr customer service and tell them what happened. I usually talk to Dave but anybody there can help you.

By the way if the engine isn't going to be used for more than a day or two, you should remove the tank.

The 5hp Lehr should run about half an hour at wide open throttle. I don't think Lehr intended for those 16 oz. canisters to be the primary fuel source. That's a very expensive way to fuel them. I have a 2.5 that will run an hour at WOT on the 16oz. canister but I almost always run it from one of the 11 pound fiberglass tanks.
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Old 11-08-2014, 20:31   #22
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
JD1, It sounds like you might have a defective fuel line. Did you smell propane? You shouldn't smell propane unless you're bleeding the system or a little bit when you disconnect the tank.

Contact Lehr customer service and tell them what happened. I usually talk to Dave but anybody there can help you.

By the way if the engine isn't going to be used for more than a day or two, you should remove the tank.

The 5hp Lehr should run about half an hour at wide open throttle. I don't think Lehr intended for those 16 oz. canisters to be the primary fuel source. That's a very expensive way to fuel them. I have a 2.5 that will run an hour at WOT on the 16oz. canister but I almost always run it from one of the 11 pound fiberglass tanks.
Yes, I had propane smell and based on what I could see with soapy water it was the connection to the cylinder. It did not seem to originate from the fuel line itself or it's junctions.
Yeah, I guess I learned about disconnecting the fuel tank
Should that adapter that screws onto the tank be just hand tight or should it be tighter ?
I guess I was expecting about 1.5 hrs of run time at the very low throttle setting I was at but it is really hard to tell how much the actual throttle setting was so maybe what I am seeing is normal. In any case, as you pointed out, it was not meant to run on the little one pounders. Originally iI was only going to use the one pounders for emergencies and main power was to come from the bigger tank - I will go back to that model.
Have you ever seen the pull start sytem not engaging the engine ?

Anyway, for now I will just keep an eye on things. I am not ready to jump up and down. I was just a bit perturbed about the issues I was having and needed to vent.

It is too bad that the fiberglass tanks don't come in a 5 lb form factor yet - that would be ideal for me and it would likely fit into my propane locker on the boat as well. The 10/20 lb tanks are too big in the diameter. Here is hoping .....
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Old 11-08-2014, 21:10   #23
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

Not ready for the "long term" review yet, but I recently let my Lehr 2.5 sit for a year while in the boatyard. It started on the first pull, no bleeding required. Runs like a top.
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Old 11-08-2014, 21:49   #24
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

"Have you ever seen the pull start sytem not engaging the engine ?"

That's a new one on me. If it happens again, call customer service. They really are there to help.

Trident Marine, the hose people, sell propane cylinders made by Worthington in steel and aluminum. They have a 5 pound steel tank and a tall skinny 6 pound aluminum tank. Northern Tools used to carry the 5 pound steel tank but last time I was in a store, they didn't have any.

Minaret, that's good to hear. Actually a little surprising. Mine tends to sit for a month or two between uses and I'm in the habit of bleeding it before I even try to start it. Maybe I don't have to?
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Old 11-08-2014, 21:55   #25
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
"Have you ever seen the pull start sytem not engaging the engine ?"

That's a new one on me. If it happens again, call customer service. They really are there to help.

Trident Marine, the hose people, sell propane cylinders made by Worthington in steel and aluminum. They have a 5 pound steel tank and a tall skinny 6 pound aluminum tank. Northern Tools used to carry the 5 pound steel tank but last time I was in a store, they didn't have any.

Minaret, that's good to hear. Actually a little surprising. Mine tends to sit for a month or two between uses and I'm in the habit of bleeding it before I even try to start it. Maybe I don't have to?



I've been using the 1lb cylinders instead of a big tank, perhaps that's the difference? Much less hose involved...
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Old 11-08-2014, 22:18   #26
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

"I've been using the 1lb cylinders instead of a big tank, perhaps that's the difference? Much less hose involved... "

That would make a difference. Good to know.
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:17   #27
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

I'm just approaching the 10 hour mark on my engine, time to do it's first servicing. After an initial issue with the oil pressure sensor, all has been well. I use a fiberglass horizontal lift truck tank for my 15 HP Lehr. My engine is number 3, so it's pretty new to the market.
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Old 18-08-2014, 11:54   #28
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Continuing saga of problems with my Lehr 2.5hp

I have had my Lehr 2.5 hp short shaft motor since February, 2013. To summarize my last post, it worked great in 2013 and in 2014 suffered from a fuel leak which I repaired, and head gasket leaking which was repaired under warranty by an authorized Lehr repair place. (A somewhat rare bird.) It worked great for about a week, but then died just as I was passing through some strong current exiting a Lagoon in Desolation Sound area. It would not restart until I let it cool for about an hour. Then it would start, idle well but die as soon as I put it in gear. The motor shaft housing below the engine was very warm, but cooling water was exiting at a normal rate. I ran it again a week later and the same thing happened after 10 minutes. To add insult to injury, the fuel line to the canister started leaking sporadically, not related to the aforementioned problem. I have an appointment at a (Lehr recommended) repair facility in BC who inform me that parts have been taking as long as 6 weeks to get. I am not a happy sailor. Looks like I won't have a dinghy motor for the balance of the season. Next year, I am likely to have a different one, and not from Lehr!
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Old 18-08-2014, 18:00   #29
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Re: Lehr outboard long term reviews

A quick update: Had another chance to use my 5 hp Lehr but this time with the big tank. This time I had no troubles with the starter not engaging but the amount of pulling trying to get the hose purged is indeed a big issue to me. Taking off the top cover to purge the line via the carburetor is not practical (too fiddly and just shouldn't be required). The engine definitely needs an external purge button.
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Old 18-08-2014, 18:58   #30
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Re: Continuing saga of problems with my Lehr 2.5hp

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I have had my Lehr 2.5 hp short shaft motor since February, 2013. To summarize my last post, it worked great in 2013 and in 2014 suffered from a fuel leak which I repaired, and head gasket leaking which was repaired under warranty by an authorized Lehr repair place. (A somewhat rare bird.) It worked great for about a week, but then died just as I was passing through some strong current exiting a Lagoon in Desolation Sound area. It would not restart until I let it cool for about an hour. Then it would start, idle well but die as soon as I put it in gear. The motor shaft housing below the engine was very warm, but cooling water was exiting at a normal rate. I ran it again a week later and the same thing happened after 10 minutes. To add insult to injury, the fuel line to the canister started leaking sporadically, not related to the aforementioned problem. I have an appointment at a (Lehr recommended) repair facility in BC who inform me that parts have been taking as long as 6 weeks to get. I am not a happy sailor. Looks like I won't have a dinghy motor for the balance of the season. Next year, I am likely to have a different one, and not from Lehr!


Sure hope my (very early) 2.5 doesn't go tits up on me like this. Lately, I've been using it daily with no troubles yet. We shall see.
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