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Old 09-10-2019, 07:06   #16
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

Labelle Sundeck 40 was posted yesterday on the classified section of this site. Does not appear to have exterior teak decks, but does have teak in some of the pics of sundeck and flybridge. Island berth. This example happens to be in Ontario Canada so not really an option, but something to think about.

For Sale: 40' Labelle Trawler w/Diesels - Trawler Forum
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:53   #17
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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But now what to buy for the boat? The ideal boat bike, as judged now with the benefit of a number of years using the Dahon on board, needs to be smaller and needs to fold up better.

Are there any decent alternatives?
You are certainly a candidate for the Helix Titanium. Here is a thread with pictures showing it folded next to a Brompton, and it's not significantly bigger. The problem is of course availability, but in theory they have a 10 speed internal hub. https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-b...ew-thread.html

Otherwise a Birdy Rohloff, at least there you know why it's expensive.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:54   #18
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

From a quality perspective you canít get a better folding bike than a Bike Friday. That is and has been their niche, used to be all folders were pretty much gimmicks and cheap junk.
Our Dahon Marinerís are decent bikes, but compared to a quality bike, they are junk really.
Call them and talk to them, ask their advice, used to be they were all serious cyclists.

Were I to buy a Bike Friday, I believe I would go to a good bike shop that has a fit kit and be measured and have a custom frame built to fit me perfectly. Itís been years ago but Litespeed custom built my Ultimate and it really does make a difference on longer rides.
Itís like buying clothes off the rack or having them tailor made.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:12   #19
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo View Post
Apparently you did not take my recommendation of the Zizzo Liberte seriously. Had you checked the link you'd have learned that I left out - for you - the most important feature. As a marine bike, minimal folding size is very important. The Liberte has quick release wheels both front and back - easy peasy and fast to take the wheels off/on.

Thus the storage space could not be any smaller or more flexible as the frame and wheels can be stored separately, yet assembled in a flash. Do yourself a favor... at least look at the Liberte, and if for any reason don't like it, do share your reasons.

Carry on. You're welcome...

I did look at it.


It's a nice enough bike, especially at its price point, but the packaging is no better than with my Dahon. I can also take wheels off, at least the front one (you don't want to store a bike with a derailleur with the rear wheel off anyway).



So at the same weight and bulk, it has no suspension and 8 vs 27 gears and much cheaper components. I want to get away from chains and derailleurs. So thanks for the recommendation, but it's a big step back from what I already have and not quite what I'm looking for. The price of course is a great plus and will be very important for a lot of people. I paid something like €2500 for my Dahon, 7 years ago. It's better but obviously not 9 times better than the Liberty. The cost of incremental betterness goes way up with expensive bikes, like with many other things.




Belt drive and hub gears are deal breakers for me in any case. Now I'm mulling over AC Atto vs. Bike Friday Pakit. There's a factory refurbished used Pakit with belt drive and the 11 speed Alfine hub for sale on the Bike Friday site for less than €2000. The AC Atto has the same fold and same bulk as my Dahon, but is lighter and has no chain or derailleur, so maybe this would be enough of an advantage in storage by itself. It has no suspension but ought to be an awesome riding bike with that carbon frame and forks and even wheels, and high class components, including hydraulic brakes. It should really be a pocket rocket; a real blast. So now the question is whether to compromise on packaging, or performance? How bad will the 16" wheels of the Pakit be? Hmmmm.


The Atto is spendy at £2750 ($3356 today), but wow. I spent almost as much on my Dahon 7 years ago and I have never regretted the somewhat irrational expenditure -- it has paid me back with oceans of pleasure, including not only great riding, but just looking at the thing.




https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/65...ng-bike-review
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:18   #20
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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I have not found the rust to be a big problem. After 7 years on board, my non-marinized Dahon has some rusty bolts, but nothing which impairs function. The frame is aluminium. The biggest rust item is the chain, but belt drive eliminates that.

The possibility of folding the bike up is a gift which just keeps on giving -- it is so great that I will keep my Dahon as my city bike. Folding is so great in so many ways that I now start to wonder why any bikes are even made which don't fold. You can take a folding bike on buses and trams where normal bikes are forbidden; you can throw them in car trunks, you can get them into small elevators, etc etc etc etc. ... And on a boat, you need folding not just for storage, but transporting in the dink, and just handling around the boat.
Lots of my Downtube hardware is rusty. Although some of that is my fault, since I often carry the thing upright in the cockpit and used to carry it uncovered... so spray from the station-wagon effect is likely at play... and I hadn't done my part with immediate hose-downs after a travel segment.


I take you point about advantages of folders... but I don't do any of that other stuff. Just use the bike for resupply, usually offloading in a marina, sometimes (maybe twice in 10-12 years?) via dink.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
While most seem to prefer "folders", we'll stick with our full size Treks.
My 5'3" 118lb. Sharon can pick them up with one in each hand.
No gears, belt drive, Plastic pedals and sprockets, aircraft aluminum frame, carbon fiber forks. Zero corrosion after 13 uncovered years on the bow. The smoothest most quiet We've ever ridden.
I think I remember you mentioning those quite some time ago... and when I looked, it appeared Trek doesn't make 'em anymore.

But... what model are they?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I paid something like €2500 for my Dahon, 7 years ago.
Say, what??? Thought they were in the $500-700 range.

What model are you talking about???

-Chris
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:36   #21
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo View Post
Oh... this one is so easy, except for the genleman sailors who equate excessive cost with actual value. How bout 23 lb, aluminum w/ SS spokes, corrosion resistant chain, high pressure tires the best folding scheme I've seen, and under $400. The Liberte by Zizzo. Top of their line, designed for mariners.


I own two of these - have used them in all conditions, on and off my Bristol, and I LOVE these bikes. Best yet, if and when it gets stolen or damaged, it's very economical to replace. If your ego can stand a bike made by "Zizzo"...

Carry on.

https://zizzo.bike/products/liberte-1
These bikes get great reviews, and in comparisons seem to compete well with Bromptons. The latter use an incredibly clever folding mechanism but for more than $1000 less, the Zizzo looks very good and might take a bit more work to fold.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:36   #22
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

To me the ideal boat bike is 20" wheels for riding rough terrain, folding, pedal brakes/no cables or shifters to snag in storage or fail. KISS. Loved mine after previously having mountain bikes that folded with cables, gears and etc.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:50   #23
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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Originally Posted by Rumpi View Post
. . . Otherwise a Birdy Rohloff, at least there you know why it's expensive.

The AC Atto cries out for a Rohloff hub. Can't imagine why it's offered with the Alfine, and not that.



The Birdy is a magnificent bike, quite similar to my Dahon, with a full suspension which is such a good thing on a small wheel bike (Sir Alex Moulton's brilliant insight from 50 years ago).



But the Birdy Rohloff comes only with a chain drive, which I will not have anymore on a boat bike Definite deal breaker.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:28   #24
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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How bad will the 16" wheels of the Pakit be? Hmmmm.
I think the Pakit has the same 349 wheel size as the Brompton ... my experience with my Brompton is that the small wheels are surprisingly good on good pavement, but start to get uncomfortable as the road quality deteriorates sooner than for 700c wheels. I got used to the twitchiness pretty quickly, but the brompton does sometimes develop an un-nerving speed wobble on fast down-hills ... I'm afraid I don't have a reference to compare to the 20" size you're used to. But with the tyres pumped up hard, the little wheels zip along very nicely, my longest ride was probably about 1500km from Montpellier to St Malo over 10 days.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:29   #25
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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But the Birdy Rohloff comes only with a chain drive, which I will not have anymore on a boat bike Definite deal breaker.
They tried beltdrive at the beginning, the "Birdy green" had one, it did not work with the suspension, 500km max before problems.

You can look at the Bernd, suspension (rear standard, front optional), hub gear, beltdrive, but not so compact folding. It's a semi-custom thing, you choose components, price varies accordingly. German made, you can get fitted in person. It is reported to work reliably.
Bernds Bikes ‚Äď Made in Germany

I recommend going into a specialized shop and riding some models and folding them. I doubt there is much difference between 16" models when it comes to ride quality.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:01   #26
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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The AC Atto cries out for a Rohloff hub. Can't imagine why it's offered with the Alfine, and not that.
- a boat buck more
- 0.5kg heavier
- tolerances for a Gates and Rohloff rig is already very, very tight for a stiff normal bike let alone a one arm folder
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:48   #27
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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chain grease.
I biked 8000 miles last year, hope to hit 10,000 this year.

I donít know anything at all about folding bikes.

But thought I would comment on ďgreasy chainsĒ - hot waxing your chain is both the lowest friction and highest durability way to treat chain, and it is perfectly clean after use - you can handle with your hand and there are no grease marks.

Look up molten speed wax, and a guy who tests chain treatments

You have to learn and adapt to a new/different procedure, But it is not hard and is fundamentally better.
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Old 09-10-2019, 13:36   #28
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
. . . Say, what??? Thought they were in the $500-700 range.

What model are you talking about???

-Chris

Dahon, like Ford, made Pintos, and made . . . GT40's.


The Jetstream EX:


Click image for larger version

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https://dahon.com/bikes/jetstream-ex/


The "German A" suspension (Products - GERMAN ANSWER bike technologies GmbH & Co. KG ), with separate rebound damping control, cost more, if you buy it separately, than I paid for the whole bike. It's cheap at the price.



Some of the best money I ever spent. I've ridden the spokes off it in probably 10 countries over the last 7 years, worn out several sets of tires and brakes and now worn out a bottom bracket.



It has splendid geometry and rides like a full sized road bike, except with better acceleration and less wind resistance because of the smaller wheels. Thank you, Sir Alex Moulton. The suspension is awesome; I don't even feel cobblestones, and I've ridden down flights of stairs under control.


I rode it in fact today, about 20 miles round trip to and from a business meeting. But it desperately needs service -- bottom bracket is knackered, and I've got loose spokes.
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Old 09-10-2019, 13:51   #29
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

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I biked 8000 miles last year, hope to hit 10,000 this year.

I don’t know anything at all about folding bikes.

But thought I would comment on “greasy chains” - hot waxing your chain is both the lowest friction and highest durability way to treat chain, and it is perfectly clean after use - you can handle with your hand and there are no grease marks.

Look up molten speed wax, and a guy who tests chain treatments

You have to learn and adapt to a new/different procedure, But it is not hard and is fundamentally better.



That's all very seductive, but since God invented the Gates Carbon Belt Drive, I ain't havin no more bikes with chains on my boat.


For boat bike service, it's, as they say over here, the dog's danglies:


https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/
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Old 09-10-2019, 14:06   #30
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Re: Ideal Boat Bike?

Gates isn't the only belt drive option. Veer offers their Split Belt Pro which also lets you use it on non-breakaway frames which can open up your choice of bikes. https://www.veercycle.com/
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