dinghy wars: hard, soft, nesting, folding...

[s/vAngel]

Hello all dinghy/tender owners out there! Would love your opinions and experiences with various types of dinghies, especially interested in people's experiences with folding dinghies. I wonder about getting one of those and have been turned off inflatables (deflatables) despite how convenient and nice those little rubber things can be. Angel is on her second inflatable and she tries to dominate the thing by trying to sit on it- seriously though, my cruising grounds are too rugged for rubber boats. Hard dinghies are great, but they don't fit up on my small boat's deck and they tow like monsters, then they ding up the cruiser's hull.
Does anyone use a nesting hard dinghy and are they practical for heavy-duty rugged use? Are those newfangled folding boats any good? Right now, my poor, beat-up RIB 10' inflatable can support a 15hp motor, which I simply use Angel's boom as a helping hand to hold and steady the 79-pound motor so I can gently heave it aboard. I like powerful motors and their weight is no big deal, but that's way beyond the rating of a folding boat. So am just fishing around for other people's experiences and views and will use my current inflatable/motor combo until I can't do anymore with the rubber boat's stylish "caved in" look. I singlehand, so I don't really need something big for lots of passengers- just powerful and rugged that can carry anchors, jugs, etc. What do other singlehanders use that works best for them? Anything else out there that's new and innovative?
Thanks ahead for the input!
Rebecca

[S/V Elusive]

While I believe that each has it's advantages, my preference has been toward a hard dinghy (although I do have two inflatables as emergency backup). My hard dinghy is a sailing Boston Whaler. Since I'm kinda into sailing, this seemed a natural for me. I have yet to see a sailing inflatable. When rowing, this boat tracks really well. I seldom use my outboard. I'll leave the 'pros' for an inflatable to others.

P.S. And I too am a single-handed sailor.

[Alan Wheeler]

I think it is fair to say that there are equal advantages and disadvantages of all designs. It depends on what suits. I use an inflatable with an inflatable keel. For me, it fits into several plus factors. I can run it onto a beach and know the hard strip under neath is protecting the soft floor. It planes well with the keel. A hard alloy floor would be harder wearing and plane better, but it's weight would mean I could not haul it clear of the water on my Davits. The soft walls of the inflatable mean I can come hard alongside with out fear of scratching paint. And finaly, it takes a lot of weight without the fear of sinking or capsizeing and tends to sit a little more stable when getting in or out.
Disadvantage is, being lighter, it can get picked up by the wind easily and tossed over, endagering the outboard. So you have to make it fast at an earlier stage of wind.

[S/V Elusive]

Rick - oye :::biting tongue::: don't MAKE me go there.

[staehpj1]

> I don't know where I'd put a dingy on a 25' express cruiser.

We towed a rigid dinghy behind our Catalina 22 when on multi-day trips and plan to do the same with our Alberg 30 unless we get/build a nesting dinghy, a folding one, or a vary small one. For conditions here in the Chesapeake bay a Rigid dinghy w/o a motor make good sense for us. If we sailed somewhere else maybe I would feel differently.

I would like to have the advantage of being able to stow a dinghy in a locker, but otherwise like a rigid dinghy that rows well. A sail rig is a nice extra.

When single-handing in warm weather a sit on top kayak is fun to have and suffices as a dinghy.

Pete

[staehpj1]

> The Admiral won't let me have either!! *sigh*

My wife says she wants to know her secret. She claims she can't get me to do or not do anything.

BTW: Do any of you guys actually have a ship's cannon? I am thinking about a potato cannon

Pete

[Lynx]

I was thinking about getting one of the inflatable Canoe's. 4 foot beam, 14 feet long, can take a 4 hp motor. This will fit it between the mast and the sanctions.
Here is one of them http://www.soar1.com/soar_14.htm
another http://www.seaeagle.com/paddleski/395ps.asp

Still - soft bottom.

Per my understanding the folding boats are a little hard getting into in deep water. No experience on my part.

[Jacques Dusseault]

Dear Alberg 30 #554,

I have an Alberg 30 #446 called Kilwinning. I have searched for the perfect dinghy for years. I have decided to build a "nesting dinghy" that will fit down over the cabin top on the fore peak of the Alberg 30. I am attaching a copy of an email discussing my project and our experience with a folding dinghy. I would appreciate your opinion and comments.

Copy of Email:
Rebecca,

I have had a folding dinghy (Port-a-boat) for the last 10 years. My original objective was to have a dinghy that I could store along my lifelines on my Alberg 30. I expected that it could be deployed from the deck in an emergency. This has proved to be impossible. It would require the Olympic water polo team! I must therefore tow the dinghy. My experience is that it tows adequately if tied tight to the stern. We have found that towing a dinghy can be dangerous in a storm. Try, as we did, to empty a dinghy in a Gulf Stream Storm. Although I have been satisfied with the construction of hull itself the rest is of very poor quality and has required frequent replacements and rebuilds. The black piping on the joints and along the rub rails leaves black marks on our hull requiring complete fender protection. It rows OK but is very sluggish underpower. We use a 4hp which is too much for this dinghy. One big advantage for the hull material is that is impervious to rough landings on rocks or coral. Handy for us since we have a dog that we must bring to shore periodically. We have cruised the Caribbean and our boat's home is the Thousand Islands region of the St-Laurence and Lake Ontario. A lot of rocks there!

I have been searching for the "perfect dinghy" for some years now. I have finally decided to build my own. I enjoy building things??? I have designed a 10' nesting dinghy which is nearing completion. The finished version should weight less than 120lbs. I am presently completing the mold and will have a completed version early this winter. It is built to be powered by up to a 15hp. and to easily plane. We tested the plug in Lake Ontario this fall and were extremely satisfied by its performance. It is non-sinkable with a double wall fiberglass foam sandwich construction and foam filled seats. This type of construction provides a high strength to weight ratio. It fits nested on the fore deck of our Alberg 30 with ample room to work our windlass and anchors. The nested dinghy could also be fitted, in its nested form, on a power boat's swimming platform or on small davits. The locking mechanisms are very strong and are designed to be able to lock the bow and stern sections together in wavy water in less than a minute. Each of the sections has enough boyancy to support an adult for the locking process. It should meet our need to have an easily deployable emergency dinghy. Both the bow and stern section have sealed water-tight compartments. The stern has adjustable boyant trim tabs. They fold into the stern when not required or when the dinghy is stored. In addition to providing an additional 14" of water-length boyancy they bring the engines center of thrust more forward and allows for the bigger engine possibiliity. They also have knee and foot pad indentations that facilitate climbing into the dinghy from the water. The rub rails are non-marking rubber and give full protection to our boat's hull. The hull will be protected from damage from rocky landings by stainless strips on the plane and tracking fins. Our plan calls for a small dodger over the bow section. A receptical for two piece oars is built into the design of the stern section. The stern will have two small wheels on the tracking fins to help move the nested dinghy over the ground.

When our dinghy is completed I will have a complete mold available to produce additional dinghies. I don't know how much interest there would be in the boating community for such a design. If there is I might consider putting it into production. All the advice from you or the readers would be appreciated. If additional info. would be of interest let me know and I can provide some rough design specifications and pictures of the work in progress.


Jacques Dusseault
Kilwinning - Alberg 30 #446

[Intentional Drifter]

Oh, yeah! A swivel gun loaded with grapeshot, chainshot or simply loose nails. Now, that would put a dent in a pirate's day! I think we would need something a bit stronger than a lifeline stanchion for a mount, though.

ID

We started out with an 8' fatty knees. My wife had a particular hatred of the dinghy, as is took on water whenever she was aboard. We purchased a 9' inflateable. When in use, it has been a Cadillac. I have had to watch some of the landings for broken bottles and rocks, but so far so good. It is bulky, and a PITA to store and deal with on short hops if you do not want to tow it. As for a dinghy for a 25" boat, West marine has been increasing their selection, and has a small inflatable for about $100 when it is on sale. It is not a pool toy, and holds 2 people and enough stuff for a beach BBQ. It will stow in a locker. I am planning on selling the inflatable with the Challenger, and buying a hard dinghy for the trimaran. I am a fan of dinghys that can be left at the dinghy dock without being stolen. An ugly hard dinghy with lots of small fenders tied around the gunwhale makes for a poor target tied up next to a new inflatable, and stands out enough that a thief would be likely to get caught.
Elusive, they do make a sailing rig for inflatables now. About $650. The Tinker is another sailing inflatable. I would really like to get one, as they are also a fully equipped lifeboat, but the $5000+ price tag is a little more value than I would put on a dinghy.

[Steve Rust]

For the 20 years that I have had my 22 foot monohull we have used an inflatable kayak. For small boats I can't think of a better dinghy. They will row faster than any other type and we did not miss not having a motor that often. They are a little tippy getting in and out but I have never flipped it except for the time we used it to run some rapids in Bad River on Lake Huron. It may not be the best for a full time liveaboard due to limited load carrying ability but for weekending and multiweek vacation cruises it works good.

[S/V Elusive]

Rick & the Admiral - You don't wanna tow your dinghy ... see my web site ... June of 2003? ::sigh:: I was very lucky to find another.

Kai - have you ever attempted to sail an inflatable - even if they do cost $5,000?? I just can't imagine it being any good - but, perhaps better than an inflatable without a sail.
--- Oh .. and Kai ... What were Susan's TRUE feelings about that fatty knees? And don't EVEN think about trying to say that you only had a COUPLE of inches of water in it.

... really .. the devil made me do it!!

[coot]

Originally Posted by S/V Elusive

have you ever attempted to sail an inflatable - even if they do cost $5,000?? I just can't imagine it being any good - but, perhaps better than an inflatable without a sail.

I have a Tinker Traveller with the sailing rig. I'm happy with how it sails.

It takes a bit of effort to rig it. You inflate the boat (4 chambers), stack up 3 sections of tubing to make the mast, step the mast, insert the dagger board, attach the rudder, raise the sails -- once I get it rigged, I'm ready for a rest, not to go sailing. That could be true of any sailing dinghy, though. Once I put the rig up, I usually leave it up for several days.

I've never capsized it. I make that a goal of any boat that I use. It takes more effort than a keel boat, but you just let the sails out if you feel it start to heel too much. If you're one of those people who likes capsizing, you can probably make it do that.

It does go upwind, but I'm not good at judging how well without instruments. If you're a racer, I wouldn't expect you to be happy with it, but then if you're a racer I wouldn't expect you to be happy with anything.

I've sailed it with 2 people and a few bags of stuff. You have to duck when you tack/jibe. You could fit more people if you didn't have to duck under the boom, etc. The spec says the payload is something over 500 kg.

My perception is that it rows pretty well (even without the daggerboard), though I don't have a lot of experience rowing other types of boats. People always say inflatables don't row well, so either this one is a lot better or I don't know what they are complaining about.

It goes forward just fine with an outboard, but it does not handle well when reversing long distances. To be fair, I only noticed this yesterday when I had engine trouble and I had to go about a quarter mile in reverse to get back to the dock. I haven't noticed a problem reversing short distances while docking.

I've never mounted the outboard and the sailing rig at the same time, though I did use it with the outboard, daggerboard, and rudder a few times. I much prefer the rudder to the directional thrust on the outboard, but if you use the rudder, the outboard is off-center. You have to put the tiller over a little to go straight.

I was surprised to see the price as $5000, but I see the non-EU list price is now 2680 UK pounds for the 12 foot boat with sailing rig. This does not include the life-raft option, which is a whole different issue.

I use it without the sailing rig a lot, but I'm still glad I can sail it. The only regret I have is that I bought the 12 foot model instead of 10 foot. It doesn't fit well on deck on my boat, so launching/retreiving while at anchor is a real pain. A couple feet shorter and a couple kilos lighter would be just fine with me.

The manufacturer's web site is www.tinker.co.uk

Well Elusive, as you well know, when the subject of that dinghy comes up, my lovely wife proves she is a sailor at heart Oh, and when I showed her this she sent 3(!) your way
As for the sailing inflatables, I have not tried them, but the concept makes sense. Not much in the water, and the kit has boards that drop over the side for a keel. The stability would be close to that of a multihull in theory (but I am sure you could not relate)
And YES, I sunk it a cople of times. Once due to too much wind, once on purpose to get under the bridge into the slough (Low bridge), and once with her in it due to too much wind, and too many crew. The third, you are very familiar with, but the need for rescue was debatable. When we sailed it, swamped, onto the beach, and dumped the water out, it was no problem. The only issue was the mutiny

[Alan Wheeler]

An infaltable Sail boat?? now that would be called a Lilo. Many a kid has sailed unintentionaly out to see in a wind while paddling on a Lilo.
What the heck is a "fatty knees"

Now as for Cannon's, mate, have I got some stories. But I could get arrested.