Dinghy Wars: Hard, Soft, Nesting, Folding...

[cooper]

Have a very old folda boat...the type with a pointy bow and stern. If you forget to take your brand new engine of the back and start sailing whilst towing it ........it takes water straight over the back and turns into a submarine with the brand new motor at the bottom !! Otherwise for a boat that has been treated badly...it has been very faithfull. The seams are just starting to let water in. l gave up folding it a while ago, because the stiffness of the plastic was probably going to crack. The new tender is going to be a ten foot nester, that will sit nicely on the aft cabin coach roof (on the new boat). In the meen time its going to be fun trying to tow a ten foot boat behind a 30 footer with 7 HP !!

[mikereed100]

Not sure if it's a helicopter or a dink but I want one

[SkipperCanuck]

I am looking seriously at a Walker Bay 8-foot rigid, non inflatable dinghy candidate. Its' SOME KIND of super marine plastic. But I hate plastic stuff. The trouble is, the damn thing is just so sensible. It will also fit into my minivan for transporting it back and forth to the mooring from home.

Will anyone save me from the madness of buying it?

[AdamY]

Originally Posted by SkipperCanuck

I am looking seriously at a Walker Bay 8-foot rigid, non inflatable dinghy candidate. Its' SOME KIND of super marine plastic. But I hate plastic stuff. The trouble is, the damn thing is just so sensible. It will also fit into my minivan for transporting it back and forth to the mooring from home.

Will anyone save me from the madness of buying it?

I bought a used WB8 when I had my previous boat (Pearson 26) in Puget Sound.

My boat came with a home built fiberglass over plywood stitch and glue Pram and I wanted something better.

When I sold the boat I had to choose which dinghy to keep and I elected to take the Pram cruising.

The WB8 is very light and with one person in it rows really well. With 2 people it seems really small and unstable. My stepfather thought the pram was silly till he rowed ashore with me in the WB8 when he said "If you want to live to see 27 get rid if this dinghy"

However, it is very tippy and far less stable/capable of carrying a load when compared to the flat bottom hard chined pram. I can stand in the pram when working on the boat in the water and it carries a rediculous amount of weight.

I have been stuck in Cabo San Lucas for the last month and thankfully I repaired my little 3HP evinrude outboard because I am anchored way out (over a mile) from the inner harbor dinghy dock. I was able to easily load 5 6 gallon jerry jugs of water and motor is the mile from the dock and then the mile back over the course of the day.

You might consider an inflatable kayak if you just want something you can easily stick in the car when you get back from the mooring. There is a magician here on a CT41 who takes an inflatable kayak ashore when he flies back to Vegas and just deflates it and shoves it in his bag.

If you do buy the walker bay wait for a boat swap and get a used one. The prices new are rediculous and I kept passing them up at swap meets after I bought mine and they were all in the $450 range and had wheels and performance sail kits etc. etc.

Anyway, another benefit from a cruising standpoint is that everybody (and I mean everybody) who sees Kristina and I in the pram points and laughs. I am hoping that would be thieves wont envy us being laughed and at will instead steal one of the many spiffy planing RIBs on the dock instead ;-)

Enough dinghy rambing for now.

Cheers,

[Kuapa'a]

Aloha,

S/V Angel... yes, there is such a critter as a good nesting hard dinghy.

I use a Waap'a, a 3-piece nesting polynesian outrigger canoe. She's 24' LOA and can be easily paddled by 1-4 people, easily sailed by 1, (traditional Polynesian tacking rig), will get up and fly with an OB, and is fun to surf in waves up to ~ 6' or so. She has provided many hours of fun, laughter, and friendship in anchorages all along the Pacific coconut milk run where I can take her diving, paddle with the locals, and/or teach other cruisers a little about the joys of paddling, or just do some serious grocery shopping without worrying about lack of room in the dink.

I'd be happy to email you some photos if you like. Although I have an inflatable as a backup, Waap'a is a genuine treat to use. Each of the three 8-foot sections easily bolt together, with lashing the ama (outrigger) being the most time consuming. All in all though, I can have her in the water in under 10 minutes... not much different than the Avon.

All the best to one and all.

Aloha Nui Loa,

John Kuapa'a

[mikereed100]

John,

I would love to see pictures of your canoe. Never seen a nesting outrigger!

Mike

[Ativa]

My "Porta Bote" ten footer arrived a few weeks ago. The little guy is ten feet long and I have a Nissan 5 hp on it.
It took me a lot of time to make this decision, I spent time talking to other cruisers and actually took rides in several dinks.
I finally came to the decision on the "Porta Bote" for the simple reason that it could be folded up and put away from thieves. The idea of being able to put the boat down below out of the eye sight was a real appeal, as well the actual weight of the boat and the apparent ability to get up and go!
I was a little worried when a box the size of a ten foot surf board was dropped at my home. After reading the instructions...... (sure) the boat went together really quit easy. I was initially concerned with how well it would handle seas.
I took the boat out fishing almost every day since and have found that besides the boat is astronomically fast, the hull flex absorbs most of the shock in moderate weather. The only issue is that the transom needs to be a bit taller and my canvas guy is still trying to figure out how to create a cover that can be used on the boat when open and folded up.
I have no issues putting the boat together on deck and sliding it into the water, however I am on a Cat and have a bit more room than most.
Be aware that if you want one of these boats, it takes quit some time from initial order to arrival.
Just my opinion.

[SkipperCanuck]

I finally bit the bullet and bought a Walker Bay 8, without the ridiculously expensive inflatable flotation collar. Haven't had it in the water yet but I plan to try it out next week in a shallow pond, with the wife and a 2 HP outboard. The dealer said if I did not like it I can get my money back, so I hedged my bet and asked for a quote and info pak from porta-boat. My hopes are on the WB 8 for towing as a dink for the moment, but I am sorta wondering if it might drown me. If you see bubbles over this space next week, pull me out, for Gawds sake.

[BBill]

Don't sweat the Walkerbay 8'. Inflatables aren't my thing either (but yes I've owned them...and still have one that's stored in a bag and hasn't been for yrs). I cruised yrs with a plastic dink and loved it. Based on that I bought a Walkerbay 8 for future cruises last yr. Yes it's tippy (compared to a heavier fiberglass one of similar design) but the plastic is tough and very lightweight. It's a dryer ride than most dinks and moving it around or on deck is light years easier than a rib. It's also way more durable than inflatables. The wheel works better than it looks like it should too. If it was hard chined like a fiberglass Dyer dink I'd put it near the best for an inexpensive and practical dink. If it was made of fiberglass the cost today would be $2-3000 instead of $800. Figure this...I paid $850 in 1976 for a Montgomery 10' fiberglass sailing dink (similar design to the wb but longer & heavier). When I went cruising I left it at home and took a plastic dink and never looked back. I still have the M10 but it will stay home while the wb8 goes when I take off again.

bb.

[Pleiades]

Dear Gord;

For your information, in response to the press article of Zodiacs: that John Garfitt, is this John Garfitt. I am a member of Cruisersforum. ("Pleiades")

John

[GordMay]

John:
Did the noted article ("Zodiac disputes Canadian study on back safety" < Boating Industry Canada - News Item >) accurately depict the situation?

[ssullivan]

I would certainly believe this, from the standpoint of *all* inflatables, not just Zodiacs. If you are sitting on the tube of one while running it in heavy seas, you can do a number on your back.

Mine puts my legs to sleep and cuts off all circulation if I go more than 3 miles in a stretch in rough conditions. Also, if I'm pounding a bit, it kills my lower back.

Originally Posted by GordMay

Not completely off-topic, but slightly skewed ...

Zodiac disputes Canadian study on back safety:

Zodiac North America has questioned the scientific validity of a Canadian study that investigated the effect of Zodiac Hurricanes on the backs of operators in rough seas. Weir Canada Inc has done a study for the Canadian Coast Guard to determine potential health problems associated with the Zodiac Hurricane 733. The Canadian Coast Guard owns about 100 of the 7.3m (24ft) boats, known as RHIBs, often used for rescue in poor weather. They are also common boats in navies and other coast guards around the world. The 733 series is also for sale on the recreational boating market.

The C$85,000 study found that the up-and-down vibrations during travel through heavy seas sometimes exceeded health thresholds established for operators of land vehicles, the only comparable standard available.

An engineer with Zodiac Hurricane Technologies Inc, however, told reporters that the study required operators to sit firmly in their seats during the bumpy rides, contrary to Zodiac's advice to customers and to the Coast Guard's own instructions to its sailors.

"The scientific validity of the study that the Coast Guard did on the boats is questionable because the configuration that they tested is not the configuration that people actually use when they're driving the boats," said Zodiac's John Garfitt. "In fact, they should not keep their bums firmly planted in their seats because that will result in back injuries — it's just common sense."

The Canadian Coast Guard ordered the study after one of its sailors won a workers' compensation claim for hip problems he alleged were aggravated by the pounding of an RHIB.

Garfitt told the news site these boats often endure conditions other vessels cannot manage. "RHIBs are the boats that go out in the worst weather, under the worst conditions, when everything else is back at the dock," he said. "There's an onus on the people driving them to use common sense. You need to be trained and you need to operate them in a sensible way."

Garfitt said the company is not aware of any claims about back injuries linked to Zodiac RHIBs.

[ssullivan]

I would certainly believe this, from the standpoint of *all* inflatables, not just Zodiacs. If you are sitting on the tube of one while running it in heavy seas, you can do a number on your back.

Mine puts my legs to sleep and cuts off all circulation if I go more than 3 miles in a stretch in rough conditions. Also, if I'm pounding a bit, it kills my lower back. Mine's an Achilles.

Originally Posted by GordMay

Not completely off-topic, but slightly skewed ...

Zodiac disputes Canadian study on back safety:

Zodiac North America has questioned the scientific validity of a Canadian study that investigated the effect of Zodiac Hurricanes on the backs of operators in rough seas. Weir Canada Inc has done a study for the Canadian Coast Guard to determine potential health problems associated with the Zodiac Hurricane 733. The Canadian Coast Guard owns about 100 of the 7.3m (24ft) boats, known as RHIBs, often used for rescue in poor weather. They are also common boats in navies and other coast guards around the world. The 733 series is also for sale on the recreational boating market.

The C$85,000 study found that the up-and-down vibrations during travel through heavy seas sometimes exceeded health thresholds established for operators of land vehicles, the only comparable standard available.

An engineer with Zodiac Hurricane Technologies Inc, however, told reporters that the study required operators to sit firmly in their seats during the bumpy rides, contrary to Zodiac's advice to customers and to the Coast Guard's own instructions to its sailors.

"The scientific validity of the study that the Coast Guard did on the boats is questionable because the configuration that they tested is not the configuration that people actually use when they're driving the boats," said Zodiac's John Garfitt. "In fact, they should not keep their bums firmly planted in their seats because that will result in back injuries — it's just common sense."

The Canadian Coast Guard ordered the study after one of its sailors won a workers' compensation claim for hip problems he alleged were aggravated by the pounding of an RHIB.

Garfitt told the news site these boats often endure conditions other vessels cannot manage. "RHIBs are the boats that go out in the worst weather, under the worst conditions, when everything else is back at the dock," he said. "There's an onus on the people driving them to use common sense. You need to be trained and you need to operate them in a sensible way."

Garfitt said the company is not aware of any claims about back injuries linked to Zodiac RHIBs.

[Lancerbye]

I have owned 2 Zodiacs , a Seasport(Zodiac Look alike) and now an 11foot Avon with a high pressure inflatable floor. I have liked and hated all of them, but they had their purposes at the time. As I am getting up there I am using more and more labour saving devices. I presently store the dink in a forward locker folded up until I get to the Gunkholing areas I plan to mess around. Getting this thing inflated is not a problem (power inflator) however launching it over the rails or life lines is a pain. I have to trust the Admiral on the winch not to drop it on me. I am looking at a Weaver swing up davit system on the swimgrid to make this a little easier. Has anyone used this system? and what are the draw backs? I have a single drop davit with a power winch for loading the outboard, which I could use to swing up the dink. I was thinking of not mounting the outboard unless I got really lazy.

[Pleiades]

No it didn't. The boat in question was a Zodiac Hurricane 733. A RIB used by resuce organizations such as the CCG & USCG. This boat has a central seating console (you don't sit on the tube). The study simulated a mass sitting firmly on the seat; a very poor shock absorbing strategy. To ride a 733 or similar correctly, one has to ride it like a horse, ie, using the knees to absorb shock. The fact is that most 733 users think themselves impervious to danger and drive them well beyond safe limits. That is why I stressed training and common sense. Operators need to take ownership of their own welfare. You wouldn't drive a car or motorcycle at 60 mph over rough ground, so why would you do it in a boat?
The article furthermore singled out Zodiacs, but that was becasue that's the boat the CCG uses almost exclusively becasue of their superb rough water sea keeping.
At the time of my response I was Vice President of Corporate Quality for the military division, located in Vancouver, Canada.