dinghy wars: hard, soft, nesting, folding... - Page 5

**Pblais** · 10-10-2006, 09:53

The worst thing about hard a dinghy is most all of them are pretty bad. I think I would take a Trinka hard dighy http://www.trinka.com/trinka8.htm given the choice. The last boat has a Montgomery 8ft sailing dighy, but it isn't ll that stable to get in and out of and won't carry much of a load. A good hard dighy is easy to row with some actual speed thus a motor does not need to be big. Current boat has an Avon RIB with 8 Hp. Should be a lot faster, but I really just like to row. No one really likes to row an inflateable. You do it when you run out of fuel.

Talbot · 10-10-2006, 11:08

Quote:

No one really likes to row an inflateable. You do it when you run out of fuel.

You should try the zodiac 260 FR (airdeck) It is actually a delight to row, so is the tinker.

You are welcome to come and try mine!!!!!

**Pblais** · 10-10-2006, 15:12

Quote:

You are welcome to come and try mine!!!!!

Sounds great. Getting there might be even more fun!

cat man do · 10-10-2006, 15:31

This ones pretty good,the Polycraft 3m tuff tender http://www.polycraft.com.au/
NIce bit of video

Dave

Brent Swain · 12-10-2006, 22:40

The preference for inflatable dinghies with their grossly over inflated prices may be a partial explanation of why so few people can afford to cruise full time. I can spend an entire year cruising the south Pacific for the cost of an inflatable dinghy.
Multiply this by other lack of thriftiness in gear decisions and it's no wonder people complain about the cost of going cruising. Its not the cost of going cruising that's the problem, it's the cost of consumer gulibility.
I started cruising with one, traded it for an aluminium one , and now laugh at my gulibility for having bought one , over other far more important priorities .
Brent

**GordMay** · 16-10-2006, 16:20

Not completely off-topic, but slightly skewed ...

Zodiac disputes Canadian study on back safety:

Zodiac North America has questioned the scientific validity of a Canadian study that investigated the effect of Zodiac Hurricanes on the backs of operators in rough seas. Weir Canada Inc has done a study for the Canadian Coast Guard to determine potential health problems associated with the Zodiac Hurricane 733. The Canadian Coast Guard owns about 100 of the 7.3m (24ft) boats, known as RHIBs, often used for rescue in poor weather. They are also common boats in navies and other coast guards around the world. The 733 series is also for sale on the recreational boating market.

The C$85,000 study found that the up-and-down vibrations during travel through heavy seas sometimes exceeded health thresholds established for operators of land vehicles, the only comparable standard available.

An engineer with Zodiac Hurricane Technologies Inc, however, told reporters that the study required operators to sit firmly in their seats during the bumpy rides, contrary to Zodiac's advice to customers and to the Coast Guard's own instructions to its sailors.

"The scientific validity of the study that the Coast Guard did on the boats is questionable because the configuration that they tested is not the configuration that people actually use when they're driving the boats," said Zodiac's John Garfitt. "In fact, they should not keep their bums firmly planted in their seats because that will result in back injuries — it's just common sense."

The Canadian Coast Guard ordered the study after one of its sailors won a workers' compensation claim for hip problems he alleged were aggravated by the pounding of an RHIB.

Garfitt told the news site these boats often endure conditions other vessels cannot manage. "RHIBs are the boats that go out in the worst weather, under the worst conditions, when everything else is back at the dock," he said. "There's an onus on the people driving them to use common sense. You need to be trained and you need to operate them in a sensible way."

Garfitt said the company is not aware of any claims about back injuries linked to Zodiac RHIBs.

**GordMay** · 17-10-2006, 04:21

From the other poll What type of Dinghy / Tender ?
What Type of Dinghy / Tender do you use?
Rigid Wood 2 (3.03%)
Rigid Plastic (Fibreglass, PVC, etc) 15 (22.73%)
Inflatable 22 (33.33%)
Rigid Inflatable (RIB) 27 (40.91%)
Other ... 3 (4.55%)
Rowed 12 (18.18%)
Sailed 2 (3.03%)
Outboard Powered 30 (45.45%)
Combination powered (specify in text) 3 (4.55%)

The outboard engine powered RIB seems to be the most popular, by the above count.

Jacques Dusseault · 22-10-2006, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/vAngel

Hello all dinghy/tender owners out there! Would love your opinions and experiences with various types of dinghies, especially interested in people's experiences with folding dinghies. I wonder about getting one of those and have been turned off inflatables (deflatables) despite how convenient and nice those little rubber things can be. Angel is on her second inflatable and she tries to dominate the thing by trying to sit on it- seriously though, my cruising grounds are too rugged for rubber boats. Hard dinghies are great, but they don't fit up on my small boat's deck and they tow like monsters, then they ding up the cruiser's hull.
Does anyone use a nesting hard dinghy and are they practical for heavy-duty rugged use? Are those newfangled folding boats any good? Right now, my poor, beat-up RIB 10' inflatable can support a 15hp motor, which I simply use Angel's boom as a helping hand to hold and steady the 79-pound motor so I can gently heave it aboard. I like powerful motors and their weight is no big deal, but that's way beyond the rating of a folding boat. So am just fishing around for other people's experiences and views and will use my current inflatable/motor combo until I can't do anymore with the rubber boat's stylish "caved in" look. I singlehand, so I don't really need something big for lots of passengers- just powerful and rugged that can carry anchors, jugs, etc. What do other singlehanders use that works best for them? Anything else out there that's new and innovative?
Thanks ahead for the input!
Rebecca

Rebecca,

I have had a folding dinghy (Port-a-boat) for the last 10 years. My original objective was to have a dinghy that I could store along my lifelines on my Alberg 30. I expected that it could be deployed from the deck in an emergency. This has proved to be impossible. It would require the Olympic water polo team! I must therefore tow the dinghy. My experience is that it tows adequately if tied tight to the stern. We have found that towing a dinghy can be dangerous in a storm. Try, as we did, to empty a dinghy in a Gulf Stream Storm. Although I have been satisfied with the construction of hull itself the rest is of very poor quality and has required frequent replacements and rebuilds. The black piping on the joints and along the rub rails leaves black marks on our hull requiring complete fender protection. It rows OK but is very sluggish underpower. We use a 4hp which is too much for this dinghy. One big advantage for the hull material is that is impervious to rough landings on rocks or coral. Handy for us since we have a dog that we must bring to shore periodically. We have cruised the Caribbean and our boat's home is the Thousand Islands region of the St-Laurence and Lake Ontario. A lot of rocks there!

I have been searching for the "perfect dinghy" for some years now. I have finally decided to build my own. I enjoy building things??? I have designed a 10' nesting dinghy which is nearing completion. The finished version should weight less than 120lbs. I am presently completing the mold and will have a completed version early this winter. It is built to be powered by up to a 15hp. and to easily plane. We tested the plug in Lake Ontario this fall and were extremely satisfied by its performance. It is non-sinkable with a double wall fiberglass foam sandwich construction and foam filled seats. This type of construction provides a high strength to weight ratio. It fits nested on the fore deck of our Alberg 30 with ample room to work our windlass and anchors. The nested dinghy could also be fitted, in its nested form, on a power boat's swimming platform or on small davits. The locking mechanisms are very strong and are designed to be able to lock the bow and stern sections together in wavy water in less than a minute. Each of the sections has enough boyancy to support an adult for the locking process. It should meet our need to have an easily deployable emergency dinghy. Both the bow and stern section have sealed water-tight compartments. The stern has adjustable boyant trim tabs. They fold into the stern when not required or when the dinghy is stored. In addition to providing an additional 14" of water-length boyancy they bring the engines center of thrust more forward and allows for the bigger engine possibiliity. They also have knee and foot pad indentations that facilitate climbing into the dinghy from the water. The rub rails are non-marking rubber and give full protection to our boat's hull. The hull will be protected from damage from rocky landings by stainless strips on the plane and tracking fins. Our plan calls for a small dodger over the bow section. A receptical for two piece oars is built into the design of the stern section. The stern will have two small wheels on the tracking fins to help move the nested dinghy over the ground.

When our dinghy is completed I will have a complete mold available to produce additional dinghies. I don't know how much interest there would be in the boating community for such a design. If there is I might consider putting it into production. All the advice from you or the readers would be appreciated. If additional info. would be of interest let me know and I can provide some rough design specifications and pictures of the work in progress.

Jacques Dusseault
Kilwinning - Alberg 30 #446

Vasco · 22-10-2006, 16:57

Jacques,

Sounds like a winner if you can keep the weight down to 120 pounds. How do you do that with a double-walled fiberglass construction? Is that ten feet excluding the trim tabs or is it nine feet plus the trim tabs. Have you got any photos?

Jacques Dusseault · 22-10-2006, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasco

Jacques,

Sounds like a winner if you can keep the weight down to 120 pounds. How do you do that with a double-walled fiberglass construction? Is that ten feet excluding the trim tabs or is it nine feet plus the trim tabs. Have you got any photos?

Rick I,

Thanks for you email. The dinghy is 10' plus trim tab. I will get some photos and the basic drawing and send it to you this week. Your opinion is valuable! Your summer and winter plans sound good!

I will keep the weight down by the fiberglass sandwich. I am using expandable foam in the sandwich plus some egg-crate type reinforcements imbedded in the foam where extra strength is required. The interior seats and compartments also increase the strength. Extra fiberglass thickness and other protection is used in areas where impacts may occur. The plug we tested proved strong enough for the test. The finished dinghy should be much stronger yet. The plug, as tested weighed just over 100lbs.

Jacques

Jacques Dusseault · 22-10-2006, 23:42

Dear Alberg 30 #554,

I have an Alberg 30 #446 called Kilwinning. I have searched for the perfect dinghy for years. I have decided to build a "nesting dinghy" that will fit down over the cabin top on the fore peak of the Alberg 30. I am attaching a copy of an email discussing my project and our experience with a folding dinghy. I would appreciate your opinion and comments.

Copy of Email:
Rebecca,

I have had a folding dinghy (Port-a-boat) for the last 10 years. My original objective was to have a dinghy that I could store along my lifelines on my Alberg 30. I expected that it could be deployed from the deck in an emergency. This has proved to be impossible. It would require the Olympic water polo team! I must therefore tow the dinghy. My experience is that it tows adequately if tied tight to the stern. We have found that towing a dinghy can be dangerous in a storm. Try, as we did, to empty a dinghy in a Gulf Stream Storm. Although I have been satisfied with the construction of hull itself the rest is of very poor quality and has required frequent replacements and rebuilds. The black piping on the joints and along the rub rails leaves black marks on our hull requiring complete fender protection. It rows OK but is very sluggish underpower. We use a 4hp which is too much for this dinghy. One big advantage for the hull material is that is impervious to rough landings on rocks or coral. Handy for us since we have a dog that we must bring to shore periodically. We have cruised the Caribbean and our boat's home is the Thousand Islands region of the St-Laurence and Lake Ontario. A lot of rocks there!

I have been searching for the "perfect dinghy" for some years now. I have finally decided to build my own. I enjoy building things??? I have designed a 10' nesting dinghy which is nearing completion. The finished version should weight less than 120lbs. I am presently completing the mold and will have a completed version early this winter. It is built to be powered by up to a 15hp. and to easily plane. We tested the plug in Lake Ontario this fall and were extremely satisfied by its performance. It is non-sinkable with a double wall fiberglass foam sandwich construction and foam filled seats. This type of construction provides a high strength to weight ratio. It fits nested on the fore deck of our Alberg 30 with ample room to work our windlass and anchors. The nested dinghy could also be fitted, in its nested form, on a power boat's swimming platform or on small davits. The locking mechanisms are very strong and are designed to be able to lock the bow and stern sections together in wavy water in less than a minute. Each of the sections has enough boyancy to support an adult for the locking process. It should meet our need to have an easily deployable emergency dinghy. Both the bow and stern section have sealed water-tight compartments. The stern has adjustable boyant trim tabs. They fold into the stern when not required or when the dinghy is stored. In addition to providing an additional 14" of water-length boyancy they bring the engines center of thrust more forward and allows for the bigger engine possibiliity. They also have knee and foot pad indentations that facilitate climbing into the dinghy from the water. The rub rails are non-marking rubber and give full protection to our boat's hull. The hull will be protected from damage from rocky landings by stainless strips on the plane and tracking fins. Our plan calls for a small dodger over the bow section. A receptical for two piece oars is built into the design of the stern section. The stern will have two small wheels on the tracking fins to help move the nested dinghy over the ground.

When our dinghy is completed I will have a complete mold available to produce additional dinghies. I don't know how much interest there would be in the boating community for such a design. If there is I might consider putting it into production. All the advice from you or the readers would be appreciated. If additional info. would be of interest let me know and I can provide some rough design specifications and pictures of the work in progress.

Jacques Dusseault
Kilwinning - Alberg 30 #446

David_Old_Jersey · 29-10-2006, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat man do

I too am looking for a dinghy that doesn't cost a mint. Reckon i'll be making one again. Specifically what i'm looking for is an 11 ft cat to flat hulled that a large fella can stand on the gunnal of. Should'nt be too hard, achieved that wth my 8ft flatty that I built for the last boat.

Found this website recently, might be something that fits your bill??

http://www.boatplans-online.com/index.php

**GordMay** · 09-11-2006, 04:40

FWIW
SailboatOwners.com < http://www.sailboatowners.com/ > ran a poll last week.
”What kind of dinghy do you have”:
Inflatable 45%
Rigid wood or fliberglass 21%
I don't own a dinghy 19%
RIB, portable, or hybrid 15%

Jacques Dusseault · 19-11-2006, 16:27

I figured out how to attach a file. I have attached a rough drawing and pictures of the work in progress. The pictures are from early this summer. Unfortunately our camera has failed and is now being repaired so more recent pictures are unavailable. Your comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jacques

Mexico Mike · 19-11-2006, 21:47

OK, an update on the Saturn 9.5 inflatable keel/floor cheapo online-purchase dinghy. We've been actually using it for a few weeks now, and are totally happy with it. Though I discovered my old Achilles was actually longer by a foot or so, the new dink will carry 4 people better (read drier) due to thicker tubes. Also carries laundry and other types of dead weight better. Very glad we made the purchase, though the new one doesn't plane as easily.
Best,
Mike

View Poll Results: What kind of dinghy/tender do you cruise with?
Inflatable. (Rigid bottom, inflatable bottom, etc.)	118	59.30%
Hard Dinghy. (Fiberglass, plastic, etc.)	51	25.63%
Folding dinghy.	17	8.54%
Nesting dinghy.	13	6.53%
Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll

10-10-2006, 09:53	#61
Pblais Moderator Site Helper Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hayes, VA Boat: Gozzard 36 - Bright Eyes Posts: 4,536 Images: 7	The worst thing about hard a dinghy is most all of them are pretty bad. I think I would take a Trinka hard dighy http://www.trinka.com/trinka8.htm given the choice. The last boat has a Montgomery 8ft sailing dighy, but it isn't ll that stable to get in and out of and won't carry much of a load. A good hard dighy is easy to row with some actual speed thus a motor does not need to be big. Current boat has an Avon RIB with 8 Hp. Should be a lot faster, but I really just like to row. No one really likes to row an inflateable. You do it when you run out of fuel. __________________ Paul Blais s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36 37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W

12-10-2006, 22:40	#65
Brent Swain Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 444	Dinghies The preference for inflatable dinghies with their grossly over inflated prices may be a partial explanation of why so few people can afford to cruise full time. I can spend an entire year cruising the south Pacific for the cost of an inflatable dinghy. Multiply this by other lack of thriftiness in gear decisions and it's no wonder people complain about the cost of going cruising. Its not the cost of going cruising that's the problem, it's the cost of consumer gulibility. I started cruising with one, traded it for an aluminium one , and now laugh at my gulibility for having bought one , over other far more important priorities . Brent __________________ Brent Swain

16-10-2006, 16:20	#66
GordMay Administrator Site Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 9,443 Images: 232	Not completely off-topic, but slightly skewed ... Zodiac disputes Canadian study on back safety: Zodiac North America has questioned the scientific validity of a Canadian study that investigated the effect of Zodiac Hurricanes on the backs of operators in rough seas. Weir Canada Inc has done a study for the Canadian Coast Guard to determine potential health problems associated with the Zodiac Hurricane 733. The Canadian Coast Guard owns about 100 of the 7.3m (24ft) boats, known as RHIBs, often used for rescue in poor weather. They are also common boats in navies and other coast guards around the world. The 733 series is also for sale on the recreational boating market. The C$85,000 study found that the up-and-down vibrations during travel through heavy seas sometimes exceeded health thresholds established for operators of land vehicles, the only comparable standard available. An engineer with Zodiac Hurricane Technologies Inc, however, told reporters that the study required operators to sit firmly in their seats during the bumpy rides, contrary to Zodiac's advice to customers and to the Coast Guard's own instructions to its sailors. "The scientific validity of the study that the Coast Guard did on the boats is questionable because the configuration that they tested is not the configuration that people actually use when they're driving the boats," said Zodiac's John Garfitt. "In fact, they should not keep their bums firmly planted in their seats because that will result in back injuries — it's just common sense." The Canadian Coast Guard ordered the study after one of its sailors won a workers' compensation claim for hip problems he alleged were aggravated by the pounding of an RHIB. Garfitt told the news site these boats often endure conditions other vessels cannot manage. "RHIBs are the boats that go out in the worst weather, under the worst conditions, when everything else is back at the dock," he said. "There's an onus on the people driving them to use common sense. You need to be trained and you need to operate them in a sensible way." Garfitt said the company is not aware of any claims about back injuries linked to Zodiac RHIBs. __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

17-10-2006, 04:21	#67
GordMay Administrator Site Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 9,443 Images: 232	From the other poll What type of Dinghy / Tender ? What Type of Dinghy / Tender do you use? Rigid Wood 2 (3.03%) Rigid Plastic (Fibreglass, PVC, etc) 15 (22.73%) Inflatable 22 (33.33%) Rigid Inflatable (RIB) 27 (40.91%) Other ... 3 (4.55%) Rowed 12 (18.18%) Sailed 2 (3.03%) Outboard Powered 30 (45.45%) Combination powered (specify in text) 3 (4.55%) The outboard engine powered RIB seems to be the most popular, by the above count. __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

10-10-2006, 15:31	#64
cat man do Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats in the piss] Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered Posts: 1,791 Images: 35	This ones pretty good,the Polycraft 3m tuff tender http://www.polycraft.com.au/ NIce bit of video Dave

22-10-2006, 16:57	#69
Vasco Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto in summer, further south in winter. Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless" Posts: 1,833 Images: 34	Jacques, Sounds like a winner if you can keep the weight down to 120 pounds. How do you do that with a double-walled fiberglass construction? Is that ten feet excluding the trim tabs or is it nine feet plus the trim tabs. Have you got any photos? __________________ Rick I Toronto

22-10-2006, 23:42	#71
Jacques Dusseault Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6	Dear Alberg 30 #554, I have an Alberg 30 #446 called Kilwinning. I have searched for the perfect dinghy for years. I have decided to build a "nesting dinghy" that will fit down over the cabin top on the fore peak of the Alberg 30. I am attaching a copy of an email discussing my project and our experience with a folding dinghy. I would appreciate your opinion and comments. Copy of Email: Rebecca, I have had a folding dinghy (Port-a-boat) for the last 10 years. My original objective was to have a dinghy that I could store along my lifelines on my Alberg 30. I expected that it could be deployed from the deck in an emergency. This has proved to be impossible. It would require the Olympic water polo team! I must therefore tow the dinghy. My experience is that it tows adequately if tied tight to the stern. We have found that towing a dinghy can be dangerous in a storm. Try, as we did, to empty a dinghy in a Gulf Stream Storm. Although I have been satisfied with the construction of hull itself the rest is of very poor quality and has required frequent replacements and rebuilds. The black piping on the joints and along the rub rails leaves black marks on our hull requiring complete fender protection. It rows OK but is very sluggish underpower. We use a 4hp which is too much for this dinghy. One big advantage for the hull material is that is impervious to rough landings on rocks or coral. Handy for us since we have a dog that we must bring to shore periodically. We have cruised the Caribbean and our boat's home is the Thousand Islands region of the St-Laurence and Lake Ontario. A lot of rocks there! I have been searching for the "perfect dinghy" for some years now. I have finally decided to build my own. I enjoy building things??? I have designed a 10' nesting dinghy which is nearing completion. The finished version should weight less than 120lbs. I am presently completing the mold and will have a completed version early this winter. It is built to be powered by up to a 15hp. and to easily plane. We tested the plug in Lake Ontario this fall and were extremely satisfied by its performance. It is non-sinkable with a double wall fiberglass foam sandwich construction and foam filled seats. This type of construction provides a high strength to weight ratio. It fits nested on the fore deck of our Alberg 30 with ample room to work our windlass and anchors. The nested dinghy could also be fitted, in its nested form, on a power boat's swimming platform or on small davits. The locking mechanisms are very strong and are designed to be able to lock the bow and stern sections together in wavy water in less than a minute. Each of the sections has enough boyancy to support an adult for the locking process. It should meet our need to have an easily deployable emergency dinghy. Both the bow and stern section have sealed water-tight compartments. The stern has adjustable boyant trim tabs. They fold into the stern when not required or when the dinghy is stored. In addition to providing an additional 14" of water-length boyancy they bring the engines center of thrust more forward and allows for the bigger engine possibiliity. They also have knee and foot pad indentations that facilitate climbing into the dinghy from the water. The rub rails are non-marking rubber and give full protection to our boat's hull. The hull will be protected from damage from rocky landings by stainless strips on the plane and tracking fins. Our plan calls for a small dodger over the bow section. A receptical for two piece oars is built into the design of the stern section. The stern will have two small wheels on the tracking fins to help move the nested dinghy over the ground. When our dinghy is completed I will have a complete mold available to produce additional dinghies. I don't know how much interest there would be in the boating community for such a design. If there is I might consider putting it into production. All the advice from you or the readers would be appreciated. If additional info. would be of interest let me know and I can provide some rough design specifications and pictures of the work in progress. Jacques Dusseault Kilwinning - Alberg 30 #446

09-11-2006, 04:40	#73
GordMay Administrator Site Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 9,443 Images: 232	FWIW SailboatOwners.com < http://www.sailboatowners.com/ > ran a poll last week. ”What kind of dinghy do you have”: Inflatable 45% Rigid wood or fliberglass 21% I don't own a dinghy 19% RIB, portable, or hybrid 15% __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

19-11-2006, 21:47	#75
Mexico Mike Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: cruising South Pacific, Yachats, OR in the Summer Boat: Swallowcraft Swift 40, Arabella Posts: 48	OK, an update on the Saturn 9.5 inflatable keel/floor cheapo online-purchase dinghy. We've been actually using it for a few weeks now, and are totally happy with it. Though I discovered my old Achilles was actually longer by a foot or so, the new dink will carry 4 people better (read drier) due to thicker tubes. Also carries laundry and other types of dead weight better. Very glad we made the purchase, though the new one doesn't plane as easily. Best, Mike __________________ "Are we there yet?" www.sailinglinks.com

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