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Old 24-10-2011, 10:08   #16
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Re: Dinghy Outboard motor recommendation?

I've been screaming through the lagoon at 30 lately. I think it makes me look fast.
I'm glad I bought a 2 stroke 9.9 for my 10' inflatable. I can lift it alone (just barely) and I can get the dink up on a plane with 2 adults, a child, a dog, and a bunch of crap onboard.
I scored a Nissan 9.9 with one hour on it for $700.00 on craigslist. It weighs about 60 pounds.
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Old 24-10-2011, 10:14   #17
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Re: Dinghy Outboard motor recommendation?

I've mostly seen minimalists as pococurante and myopic. Based on minimalist rules, we should all be poling our dinghies to shore.
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Old 25-10-2011, 22:37   #18
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

For going to out of the way, third world type destinations, Yamaha has the best dealer and parts network. We had a Yamaha 15 HP with fins that would plane our large RIB in a heartbeart. That engine worked great until it was stolen in the Sudan... Probably some fisherman there using it now telling his buddies what a great engine he has!
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Old 26-10-2011, 06:50   #19
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

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For going to out of the way, third world type destinations, Yamaha has the best dealer and parts network. We had a Yamaha 15 HP with fins that would plane our large RIB in a heartbeart. That engine worked great until it was stolen in the Sudan... Probably some fisherman there using it now telling his buddies what a great engine he has!
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Somebody should start a thread based on outboard and dinghy protection.
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Old 26-10-2011, 08:51   #20
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

Does anyone make a 15 hp 2 cycle outboat motor available in the US?

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Old 26-10-2011, 09:01   #21
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

I'm using a 15hp Suzuki electric-start 4-stroke on a 10' Caribe RIB. Amazing how little fuel it uses.
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Old 26-10-2011, 09:18   #22
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

Bash - Pushing a given boat at a given weight and at a given speed requires a pretty consistent amount of effort, and you'll burn about the same amount of fuel in a 30HP 2-stroke at half throttle or a 15HP 4-stroke at full throttle or anything else that burns gasoline in an enclosed combustion chamber. 2-strokes and 4-strokes do not burn significantly different amounts of fuel, except at slow idle, unless there is something very wrong with one of them. How much fuel are you saving? 10 gallons per year? 1000?

Wmii - there are, you just have to look. See my post above. The motor I found was a 2008 model year, of which a dealer had bought several hundred and was converting to jet units. My factory warranty still expires in 2013. I'm sure that's not completely unique, especially with 15HP engines.

You could also buy something common off Craigslist and have it rebuilt. I'm sure that would be significantly cheaper than buying a new engine, and you still save half the weight of a 4-stroke.
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Old 26-10-2011, 09:34   #23
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

[QUOTE=Dustymc;804329]Bash - Pushing a given boat at a given weight and at a given speed requires a pretty consistent amount of effort, and you'll burn about the same amount of fuel in a 30HP 2-stroke at half throttle or a 15HP 4-stroke at full throttle or anything else that burns gasoline in an enclosed combustion chamber. 2-strokes and 4-strokes do not burn significantly different amounts of fuel, except at slow idle, unless there is something very wrong with one of them. How much fuel are you saving? 10 gallons per year? 1000?
{/QUOTE]

http://www.outboard-motors-and-boati...efficiency.pdf

The 4 stroke 14hp engine goes almost twice as far on a litre of fuel. That's if you don't spend any time idling, which I do. Is a doubling insignificant?

Secondly there's the stink. When a bunch of 2 stroke driven sailboats are in the estuary the moke is visible, and that smoke contains fine particulates that are strongly associated with respiratory illness including lung cancer.

You're likely to see more legislation in the future that will start to limit the places you can take a 2 stroke. I imagine San Francisco bay will be an early adopter. So buying one now seems perverse when you might end up selling it in a few years into a market where it's almost worthless.

Why not just go a bit slower and have breathable air?
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Old 26-10-2011, 09:41   #24
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Re: Dinghy Outboard motor recommendation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahunter View Post
I've mostly seen minimalists as pococurante and myopic. Based on minimalist rules, we should all be poling our dinghies to shore.
Oars can be pretty handy, and 9/10 most cruisers could use a little exercise. My wife, myself, and our daughter headed to shore.

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Old 26-10-2011, 09:51   #25
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Re: Dinghy Outboard motor recommendation?

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Oars can be pretty handy, and 9/10 most cruisers could use a little exercise. My wife, myself, and our daughter headed to shore.

]
Again it's horses for courses. If you're on a mooring and need to just go back and forth to the boat rowing might be fine. For the type of cruising I do your dinghy is everything. I have seen folks hurrying back to their boat when a squall comes through, rowing would not do it. Now many folks do row or paddle, more and more cruisers have kayaks now. They're just for paddling around and not for serious transportation.

Try rowing in this. While this was going on a couple was tearing through the anchorage in their dink trying to catch their their big boat.
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Old 26-10-2011, 09:52   #26
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

Thanks Mark, but I have to wonder what "in-house testing" means? Are they pushing X pounds in Boat Y at Speed Z through the water, or tossing them in a tank and running at Q RPM for T minutes? I highly suspect something closer to the latter, if for no other reason than measuring work is hard.

The stink and pollution are indeed valid considerations, as are access limitations. (SF Bay limitations would probably require Federal intervention, but you already can't use a 2-stroke on Lake Tahoe, for example.)

There is also the safety and usability aspect of moving additional weight around on deck. A 75-pound 2-stroke 15HP is something many people can just pick up and move around. A 100 pound 4-stroke is over that limit for many of those same people, so we need either additional equipment to handle heavier engines or less power. Some of our boats will not readily and safely handle the additional weight, so we have to go to about 8HP to get down around the 75 pounds in 4-stroke, and that won't plane many dinks that 15 will. A 10 mile trip just went from 20 minutes to 2 hours. Along with burning MUCH more fuel (because you're pushing water rather than planing, and most dinks don't have elegant displacement hulls), the trip is now long enough that many people just won't bother, or will start shopping for a boat that can carry the equipment required to carry the equipment required to get somewhere in a reasonable fashion!

If your enjoyment involves staying close to "home," or your situation allows for a boat that will carry a 4-stroke of sufficient size to do what you want, then by all means slow down and enjoy your exhaust. However, please recognize that not all of us have lifestyles or boats that accommodate those options, and therefore appreciate the value of 2-stroke outboards.
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Old 26-10-2011, 10:09   #27
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

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Bash - 2-strokes and 4-strokes do not burn significantly different amounts of fuel, except at slow idle
You've got to be kidding! It's at least a 30% difference. In a past life I worked a a motorcycle mechanic. 2 strokes are inefficient and burn dirty. Today's 4 strokes are more effient, burn much cleaner and have greater fuel efficiency. And regarding weight. A Johnson 6 hp. 2 stroke weighs 56 lbs. http://www.outboardmotor.net/motors/156.html
My Tohatsu 6 hp., 4 stroke, weighs 58 lbs. Tohatsu Outboard Motor 6hp 4-Stroke
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Old 26-10-2011, 10:41   #28
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

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You've got to be kidding!
Yes, it was all a joke, and since 2-cycle and 4-cycle motorcycles are just like boats (being water cooled and all) and generally used for the same purposes and mounted on the same frames.......

Or are they drastically different beasts?

My point stands: To move a given boat with a given mass a given distance takes a really similar amount of fuel whether you're using 2 or 4 stroke technology, or something is very wrong. (In motorcycles - and airplanes - part of the "wrong" is that fuel is also used for cooling. That's not necessary when you're parked in a very large puddle of a very good coolant, as with outboards.)

I'm pretty impressed with the weight of that Tohatsu, by the way. I have a 2.5HP Honda that weighs 27 pounds - a couple pounds less than comparable 4-strokes. I thought that was unique. Why in the heck isn't there a 75-pound 15HP 4-stroke available?
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Old 26-10-2011, 11:52   #29
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

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Thanks Mark, but I have to wonder what "in-house testing" means? Are they pushing X pounds in Boat Y at Speed Z through the water, or tossing them in a tank and running at Q RPM for T minutes? I highly suspect something closer to the latter, if for no other reason than measuring work is hard.

The stink and pollution are indeed valid considerations, as are access limitations. (SF Bay limitations would probably require Federal intervention, but you already can't use a 2-stroke on Lake Tahoe, for example.)

There is also the safety and usability aspect of moving additional weight around on deck. A 75-pound 2-stroke 15HP is something many people can just pick up and move around. A 100 pound 4-stroke is over that limit for many of those same people, so we need either additional equipment to handle heavier engines or less power. Some of our boats will not readily and safely handle the additional weight, so we have to go to about 8HP to get down around the 75 pounds in 4-stroke, and that won't plane many dinks that 15 will. A 10 mile trip just went from 20 minutes to 2 hours. Along with burning MUCH more fuel (because you're pushing water rather than planing, and most dinks don't have elegant displacement hulls), the trip is now long enough that many people just won't bother, or will start shopping for a boat that can carry the equipment required to carry the equipment required to get somewhere in a reasonable fashion!

If your enjoyment involves staying close to "home," or your situation allows for a boat that will carry a 4-stroke of sufficient size to do what you want, then by all means slow down and enjoy your exhaust. However, please recognize that not all of us have lifestyles or boats that accommodate those options, and therefore appreciate the value of 2-stroke outboards.
Yes I can appreciate the problem when you have a sportboat that you want to use for longer trips. Around here you could go gunkholing in a small inflatable but it's sure nice to have planing speed.

For my 8.5 ft Achilles I just went for a Suzuki 2.5 4 stroke that's about 30 lbs and gave up on the idea of planing. It's fine for ship to shore work but for exploring / gunkholing it's too slow.
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Old 26-10-2011, 11:53   #30
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Re: Dinghy Outboard Motor Recommendation ?

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In motorcycles - and airplanes - part of the "wrong" is that fuel is also used for cooling. That's not necessary when you're parked in a very large puddle of a very good coolant, as with outboards.
Not sure what the source of your information is but the oil mixed with gasoline in 2 strokes is only for lubrication...not cooling. Please notice there is no crankcase oil in a 2 stroke where as there is in a 4 stroke.
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