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Old 02-05-2016, 13:37   #61
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

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Yuk, having sat in more than my fair share of ribs that looks like a very uncomfortable. Rounded edges to the console will help.

Pete
What do you think looks uncomfortable Pete? I have the exact same RIB now, just without the aluminum console and it's very nice for sitting on the tubes. The AB's have large diameter tubes also so you stay dry and their build super strong with a second flat floor. The console looks pretty utilitarian, almost like it was designed as a work boat. For me, that would be great because it's all welded. Maybe the seat could have more rounded sides and be able to fit two in a row.

The console's I don't like are these. Total garbage.
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Old 28-05-2016, 06:56   #62
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Just a brief update --

We've dragged the new dinghy across the North Sea and all the way across
the Baltic from one end to the other -- about 1300 miles so far. On the long sea crossings, the dinghy has been stored folded up to its wonderfully compact dimensions (like a surf board) on the foredeck. I still need to work on the fixings, and find a way to keep it off the teak deck, and also to devise a really strong cover for it (the Avon one is cheap and flimsy). But it is so wonderful not having the dinghy hanging off the back in a seaway. I can feel the difference in windage and the weight off the stern, and as a bonus the boat looks so much better, and visibility aft is so much better.

It takes about 15 minutes to inflate and launch it. It will take longer to put it back, of course, but itís really not a big hassle Ė less than I thought. Certainly I would endure any amount of inflating and deflating rather than go through the awful hassle of the old davits.

The very light new dinghy goes up on the new, smaller, mechanical davits in a snap. The problem with the old dingy was the huge mass, which also meant huge inertia and tendency to swing around in the davits. This is totally different, even with the motor in place, and the motor can come off (need to devise a better way to lift it, however). I will keep the new dinghy in davits for short passages from one anchorage to another, like weíre doing today.

The new dinghy is serving pretty well as the ďfamily carĒ. Itís not as fast, commodious, or as seaworthy as the old one, but itís good enough so far. Last night we overloaded it with five people and barbecue gear and it was just fine. The Italian putt putt one-lunger 8 hp four stroke motor is hard to start compared to my previous Mariner two-stroke, but it idles better and runs fine.

So Iíve really warmed up to this rig, after getting over the rude discovery of its limitations. All in all a huge improvement. And freedom from those awful electric davits is something I say a prayer of thanks for every single day Iím cruising now.
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Old 28-05-2016, 07:06   #63
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

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What do you think looks uncomfortable Pete?
Sorry only just seen this. The problem is on long trips the edge of the console will rub against your thighs. I much prefer a slightly taller but narrower console which tapers in from the base to the seat.

Dockhead, can we have a photo ? Here is one from before you made the changes.
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Old 28-05-2016, 07:33   #64
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Look for a dinghy bag from defender. They stock an avon replacement that's much better made, as well as a looser fit that makes bagging the dinghy far easier.


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Old 28-05-2016, 10:56   #65
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Here's mine after the new motor and jockey console. I love it
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Old 28-05-2016, 12:07   #66
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Dockhead,

Our dinghy Flo, God rest her soul was exactly the same model Avon that you had.

She passed away earlier this week and is being replaced by an aluminum Highfield Classic 360.

Ken
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Old 28-05-2016, 12:08   #67
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

.... and here I thought this was the relationships forum....
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Old 13-07-2016, 08:02   #68
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Dinghy Joy :)

I've been cruising with the new dinghy for 2 1/2 months now, and my opinion has changed completely

What a total and complete joy not to have a dinghy in davits on a long passage No worry about whether it's chafing, whether it's secure enough, etc. etc. And the difference in windage is noticeable when sailing upwind And the mother ship is so much prettier without all that carp hanging off the stern

Folded up and in its bag on the foredeck it wasn't in the way at all, other than blocking the forecabin hatch somewhat.


The dinghy itself has served admirably. It's not good for crossing the Solent with any sea running, as I found out. But for usual dinghy purposes it's been just fine, carrying five adults and barbecue gear without any problem. It fulfills the purpose of quickly, easily, and without any trouble getting ashore from an anchorage, much better than the old one, where we would dread the hassle of getting it up and down, for a short shore visit.


My plan to fold it for longer passages and use the new smaller mechanical davits when knocking around the coast has worked well. The new dinghy is SO much lighter -- it goes right up with the simple hand cranked davits with no problem at all. It's so easy to take up and put down that I am using it more than the old dinghy because it's just no trouble to deploy. Having gotten rid of the old troublesome electric davits is a joy difficult to find words to describe.


So this has actually worked out better than I hoped, and I can really recommend this -- Avon Lite folding RIB. Mine is the 310. It's light enough to pull up on a beach single handed, and I can even pull it up on a lowish pontoon and deflate and fold it, single handed.

This is also valuable for maintaining it -- it means I can pull it up on my pontoon to clean it and scrub the bottom. I had no good way to do this with the old one.

It is not at all hard to fold up or to inflate and launch, although the bag is too tight and is somewhat hard to zip up. I guess it takes about 10 minutes to do either operation. I might have a new bag made from heavier material, over the winter.

It's an actual RIB, so it will plane, and although it is far less seaworthy than the full sized Avon 340 it replaced, it is far MORE seaworthy than air floor and other non-RIB dinghies. It does limit me from the longer distance dinghy cruising I used to do, and I would be be much less inclined to go out into the sea with it than with the old one, but that was never more than 3% of what I use the dinghy for, so I'm not actually missing this capability too much.

Everything is a compromise, usually a painful one, where dinghies are concerned, but this has turned out, after all, to be a really good one.


Concerning the motor -- I'm also liking this. It's a Selva 8hp ultralight 4 stroke. It's ultra-cheap and ultra-plasticky as well as ultra-light, and I don't know whether it will hold up as well as the previous Mariner two-stroke, but it's working well so far. It doesn't start as easily as the old one, but starts ok. It's a one-cylinder and vibrates, but this has not bothered me at all. It's not enough power to plane with more than two people, and barely planes with two, but it's plenty of power for any non-planing use.

It's incredibly frugal with fuel -- in fact it seems I overbought fuel in Helgoland. I haven't even used up the 10 liters the on-board tank holds, in 2 1/2 months.

It's barely light enough to manhandle single-handed. I don't have an outboard crane so this is important. It's rather awkward to handle and wish there were something lighter, but there is not unless I'm willing to go to 3 or 4 horsepower, which I don't think I am. It weighs 27kg.
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Old 13-07-2016, 08:29   #69
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Dockhead,. Do you reckon that you will still spring for the dinghy garage on a new boat or is your current dinghy system good enough?

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Old 13-07-2016, 08:34   #70
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re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

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Dockhead,. Do you reckon that you will still spring for the dinghy garage on a new boat or is your current dinghy system good enough?

Steve
Good question. I was just thinking about that today.

A setup like this with a dedicated locker for the folded up RIB would be pretty good and would save a huge amount of hull volume compared to a dinghy garage.

On the other hand, being able to carry a more serious RIB internally would also be really good -- different tradeoffs. In remote areas a more serious RIB would be more important to have, than where I am now.

One thing I have been surprised about is how easy it is to inflate and deflate a RIB of this size. I didn't expect that. And that's with a manual foot pump.

Maybe there's a middle way with a larger RIB but with some internal space which will take it deflated.

This requires more study.

Note that there seem to be more and more folding RIBs on the market. For example these go all the way up to 3.6 meters:

http://foldablerib.com/
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Old 14-08-2016, 05:18   #71
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Re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

We’re now on our way back to the UK and have gotten as far as the South Coast of Sweden. In a couple of days we’ll be in Kiel already.

The new dinghy has been just great. I liked it more and more with every passing week.

I was afraid that I would be too lazy to deflate and store it before long passages and would end up just leaving it in the davits, and in fact I have not been too lazy – because it is so easy to fold up and store. I reckon it’s less trouble to get it safely packed up in its bag and tied down on the foredeck, than it was just to strap the old dinghy into the davits getting ready (getting sort of ready) for open sea. It is wonderful doing hard sailing and knowing that the dinghy is not swinging out behind, chafing, causing windage, worrying whether something might break loose. It’s also wonderful in tight berthing situations not having it sticking out behind.

It's so light that two people can easily lift it onto the foredeck without any mechanical assistance, despite our very big freeboard forward. With a halyard, it’s a snap. I guess three minutes to lead it around by the painter and lift it up, another 5 – 10 minutes to get it well deflated and folded, and a couple of minutes to get the cover on and get it tied down – I didn’t even hope it would be so easy.

Launching it is even easier. Just blow it up and throw it over the side. 5 minutes.

The lightness is also a boon when using the davits. I downsized my davits with the smallest Simpson ones, rated for only 150kg for the pair. Unlike my old monstrous electric Simpson davits, these have a simple mechanism with only a few parts, no clutch, etc. You can crank up either end of the dinghy, even with the motor on, with one hand, without any effort. It just goes right up. And being so light, it doesn’t really swing around much.

The relative lack of seaworthiness compared to the old one has not been a problem. Four or even five people plus barbecue gear has been just fine, knocking around the Swedish and Finnish archipelagos. With 8hp it won’t plane with more than two people on board but I don’t really care. In fact I am tempted to buy a second ultralight outboard for calm weather and short distances, but stop myself when I think about two (!) outboards hanging on my pushpit (ugh!).

I’ll have to take the ferry from now on, rather than blasting across the Solent in the dinghy to Southampton for parts, as I used to do, but this is a small price to pay – I just can’t carry that much dinghy on this boat, and that’s that.
The only real problem I have is the struggle getting the motor off and up on the pushpit. The motor only weighs 27kg but that’s heavy enough to be hard and possibly dangerous manhandling it. It’s especially difficult and risky if there’s any sea running and the dinghy is bouncing up and down. I had an outboard crane on my last boat, which solved this problem neatly, but I am loathe to clutter up my after deck with such a thing here. I’ve tried using the davit – works ok to get the motor up to the swim platform, but beyond that it’s the same struggle. I’ve tried a halyard but the angle of lift is no good (works as a safety line, though). I could lift it on a halyard or from the boom from alongsides, but then the motor has to be carried all the way back. It may be that I really don’t have any choice but to do some kind of crane, but if someone has some other idea, I will be glad to hear it.

As to what this experience does for my thought about the next boat – it’s a really good question. What it’s really opened my eyes to, is that having the capability of securely storing an inflated RIB is not all that necessary. In general, a folding transom RIB in davits for short calm coastal hops and folded up for going to sea works great. If there were a bigger version of this RIB, and if some kind of clever storage could be invented for it aft, that might be the solution for a <20 meter cruising boat. This thing is very compact when folded and I bet it wouldn’t be hard to design a good place to keep it, if you’re designing a boat from scratch.
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Old 15-08-2016, 13:29   #72
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Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Dockhead, you may already be aware of this, the Garhauer outboard davit is easily removable as it rests on a universal ball mount and clamps to the stern rail. I had them make up a clamp to fit my 1 1/4" rail rather than the standard 1". No extra charge. So you can have the mechanical advantage of the crane and not have the aesthetic issue of extra stuff hanging off the back.

https://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=41


S/V B'Shert
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Old 15-08-2016, 13:57   #73
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Re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Yep. A good dinghy is a joy.

Definitely one of the items that change the game as one goes from a small boat to a big one.

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Old 25-08-2016, 18:52   #74
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Re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

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Has a belt driven (!) overhead cam. Like the Italians like.
Being italian it's any wonder it doesn't have desmodronic valves!!
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Old 26-08-2016, 00:11   #75
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Re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

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Being italian it's any wonder it doesn't have desmodronic valves!!
A Ducati outboard --

would be cool . . .
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