Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-04-2016, 04:44   #16
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,955
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Dockhead, have you tried a outboard extension which would allow you to sit on the seat? might balance the Avon better with one person in it for longer trips.


Nuova Rade Outboard Tiller Extension Telescopic 80-111cm

I have a short shaft 8hp Mariner 2 stoke if that would help. Only snag is I have never actually run it. Bought it for my dinghy project but am too busy with the house at the moment.
If the Selva is toasted, I'll make you an offer on the Mariner. The last dinghy had a Mariner 2-stroke, and in seven years hard use, I had fewer major problems with it than I've already had the first day with the Selva 4-stroke

That motor was absolutely bulletproof, never failed to start, always ran like a top. It had electric start and one year I let the battery go over the winter, and for a couple of years didn't bother to replace it -- because the motor always started with half a pull on the cord starter, so the electric start was really unnecessary.

By the way, we still have one free berth in case you want to do a North Sea crossing with us, departing 1 May.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 04:46   #17
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,955
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
DH, what's your new dinghy setup?

Avon 310 Lite RIB with folding transom
Selva Black Bass 8 hp four stroke one cylinder tiller steered outboard.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 04:57   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 9,653
Send a message via Skype™ to Jim Cate
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

DH, I kinda hate to say this, but when you buy an off-brand outboard of an unusual configuration, and then run it hard right out of the box... well, some deficiencies in performance are not too surprising, at least to me.

Hope it isn't a goner, mate, but if it is, you might consider a two cylinder two stroke of around the same power... you know, the kind that run forever, even if maltreated.

good luck with it... a reliable dink motor is such a necessity!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann
s/v Insatiable II, en route back to Hobart, Tasmania
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 05:11   #19
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,955
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
DH, I kinda hate to say this, but when you buy an off-brand outboard of an unusual configuration, and then run it hard right out of the box... well, some deficiencies in performance are not too surprising, at least to me.

Hope it isn't a goner, mate, but if it is, you might consider a two cylinder two stroke of around the same power... you know, the kind that run forever, even if maltreated.

good luck with it... a reliable dink motor is such a necessity!

Jim
Well, it's not really an "off brand" -- old Italian outboard maker owned by Yamaha. It is pretty cheaply made, but I don't see any inherent reason why it should be unreliable (however we shall see).

It came with the boat, was not brand new (but nearly so), and had very attractive specs -- the lightest four stroke of that size and comparable to two strokes. I don't have a motor crane and don't want one. That 27kg is absolutely the maximum I can manhandle so don't want anything heavier. I don't want anything two cylinder because of the weight.

I have a 5hp Yamaha two stroke at my lake house I never use any more; I might actually just use that if the Selva is not fit to use.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 05:52   #20
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 8,868
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Your dinghy disappointment is the logical result of buying an inadequate dinghy, which was the result of not having an adequate dinghy storage method on board.

The Avon 310 RIB I had was very good (not the "light" version) and paired with a 15hp 2-stroke it was brilliant. It did have construction weakness in the fiberglass part which made me trade up to a Caribe which also had even bugger diameter tubes.

The best way to store this on the transom requires more than a couple of davits. Our first big modification to Jedi was the addition of the arch with integrated dinghy hoist that utilized the hoisting-arm that makes it work so well.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 06:10   #21
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,725
Images: 4
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Interesting complaint. I've often found ribs w consoles had very little space for people or large gear and were much slower and rougher as your butt sat on a hard bench w a cushion vs a tube w some give. And the need for double the HP just to move them, increases the weight and fuel factor. But boy they sure look nice, maybe you just need a better ob?

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 06:18   #22
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,955
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Interesting complaint. I've often found ribs w consoles had very little space for people or large gear and were much slower and rougher as your butt sat on a hard bench w a cushion vs a tube w some give. And the need for double the HP just to move them, increases the weight and fuel factor. But boy they sure look nice, maybe you just need a better ob?

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
No, I LOVED the console and wheel steering. It makes an incredible difference in how the RIB handles, making it possible to go through much rougher conditions. Consoles don't work well on small RIBs, but on the Avon 3.40 it was fine -- I could 5 people in with ease, tons of gear, no problem. It was nearly perfect tender -- just impossible to store.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 06:25   #23
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,955
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Your dinghy disappointment is the logical result of buying an inadequate dinghy, which was the result of not having an adequate dinghy storage method on board.

The Avon 310 RIB I had was very good (not the "light" version) and paired with a 15hp 2-stroke it was brilliant. It did have construction weakness in the fiberglass part which made me trade up to a Caribe which also had even bugger diameter tubes.

The best way to store this on the transom requires more than a couple of davits. Our first big modification to Jedi was the addition of the arch with integrated dinghy hoist that utilized the hoisting-arm that makes it work so well.
Well, all of these things are tradeoffs of course. There is no way I'm going to have a contraption like that on my boat -- ugh! To each his own of course. But no way I will put all that weight, windage, and sheer junk on my boat. Such a thing would make my boat look like (and I fear sail like) a scrap metal dealer's scow.


In my opinion, there are two really good ways to store a dinghy, and only two I know of -- a dinghy garage (if you look at the way it's done on the HR64 -- that's what my next boat will have), or foredeck. On big enough boats you can have a kind of well in the foredeck a RIB can fit down into -- that's very cool and even better than a dinghy garage, but I think probably not practical on a boat less than 70' or so.


So meanwhile for me the only reasonable solution is a RIB like this one which can be folded up for ocean passagemaking, and can be kept on light davits for short coastal hops. With a motor light enough to lift off. I'm just going to have to live with the limitations of that setup for now. Hopefully I'll have a different boat in a few years.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 07:31   #24
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,859
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Your painting yourself into a corner, you went from many most would consider an overly large and heavy dinghy, to what most would consider an inadequate dinghy.
There is a middle ground, but it does require well designed, well built, heavy duty lifting tackle, or it is a real PIA, if you have the Davits for it, it's a breeze.

You remind me of the guy on a mooring that is killing batteries, but will not fit a Solar panel, because those things would ruin the classic lines of his boat.

Don't disdain four strokes either from one cheaply made little one lunger either. The bigger and heavier ones have to be used for awhile to be appreciated they are simply much more refined.
Form follows function


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 07:56   #25
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,955
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Your painting yourself into a corner, you went from many most would consider an overly large and heavy dinghy, to what most would consider an inadequate dinghy.
There is a middle ground, but it does require well designed, well built, heavy duty lifting tackle, or it is a real PIA, if you have the Davits for it, it's a breeze.

You remind me of the guy on a mooring that is killing batteries, but will not fit a Solar panel, because those things would ruin the classic lines of his boat.

Don't disdain four strokes either from one cheaply made little one lunger either. The bigger and heavier ones have to be used for awhile to be appreciated they are simply much more refined.
Form follows function


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Well, my mind is open about four strokes, and even about this Selva.

I've just looked at it and cleaned it off. I don't think it was simply overfilled with oil, as it now is somewhat low on oil even measured with the stick screwed all the way in.

I thought there might be a loose pipe or hose, but there don't seem to be any. I will take off the air cleaner and try to find a breather hose.

Difficult without a service manual or parts list.



I'm not sure I agree that the dinghy is "inferior". It's all relative. Inferior to what? It's better than the 9' Italian RIB I used in Florida, and that one couldn't be folded.

And it's a LOT better than the 8' soft floor roll up one we used on my friend's 90 foot (!) Swan. He was a purist -- no davits for him. We used to lift it on a halyard and tie it down -- inflated -- on the foredeck.


You gradually get used to the limitations. I just won't be using the dinghy to get across the Solent anymore, or to take a day-long dinghy cruise. I will be more weather and distance limited than previously. We'll make final conclusions after we get back from the Baltic, but I still think the tradeoff is about right.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 08:08   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 4,859
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Fwiw I don't think your dinghy is inadequate. If you'll remember we make due with the smaller version of your dink (260 lite). What I've learned though about these very flat bottomed boats is for covering ground you need a tiller extension as well as a cushion. You sit on the hull on the cushion all the way forward leaning against the athwartship seat.

Our boat is much smaller than yours, but the dingy storage problem is the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 09:22   #27
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,955
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Fwiw I don't think your dinghy is inadequate. If you'll remember we make due with the smaller version of your dink (260 lite). What I've learned though about these very flat bottomed boats is for covering ground you need a tiller extension as well as a cushion. You sit on the hull on the cushion all the way forward leaning against the athwartship seat.

Our boat is much smaller than yours, but the dingy storage problem is the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I'll try the tiller extension.

The flatter bottom (shallower "V") also means much less directional stability. Which means more difficult harbor maneuvers.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 09:27   #28
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: [S]Hamble (Spring and Fall)[/S], Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 16,955
Problem Solved :)

Oil throwing was apparently from the dipstick -- it seats in a conical opening in the crankcase which is slightly rough. And needs to be firmly screwed down for the o-ring to seat.


I took it out for a nice cruise up the Medina River and it's running fine. I don't think any permanent damage was done; thank God there was still oil in it.

For this use -- river, harbor -- this dinghy is fine. I prefer two strokes, but I have to admit that this one-cylinder thumper is kind of pleasant at low revs. It's torquey and has an excellent, clean idle (which two strokes never have).


And then --

I lifted my new dinghy in my new davits for the very first time. The new davits are half the size of the old ones, and are pure mechanical ones, with cranks.

Oh, what a joy!!! Even with the engine on it (which is not beyond the capacity of the davits), it goes right up, effortlessly, no troublesome mechanism to worry about.

This is going to change my life. Final conclusions when we get back, but it looks to me like a tradeoff worth it 1000x over.


The dinghy fits so nicely in the davits -- and it only weighs 43kg! -- that I think it will be fine there. So I'll fold it up for the North Sea crossing, but once in the Baltic I reckon it will stay there.

Wow, I didn't reckon on it working so well in these davits.


Now I just need an easy way to get the motor off. I can manhandle it -- just -- but it's a pain, and there's some risk of dropping it in the water. I had a motor crane on my previous boat, but I don't want one on this boat -- trying to keep down the junkyard look and attendant windage.

Maybe a motor sling and a halyard would make it easier.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 13:43   #29
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 12,859
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Why take the motor off? 99% of the time I leave my 100 lb 20 HP on the dinghy and in the Davits.
If I make it too tough to use it, I won't use it nearly as much, and I often get bored and go on a dinghy cruise. I intend to dismount the motor only for passages


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2016, 14:02   #30
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 8,868
re: Dinghy Disappointment :(/Dinghy Joy :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Well, all of these things are tradeoffs of course. There is no way I'm going to have a contraption like that on my boat -- ugh! To each his own of course. But no way I will put all that weight, windage, and sheer junk on my boat. Such a thing would make my boat look like (and I fear sail like) a scrap metal dealer's scow.
Thank you for insulting me and my boat, I'll remember it

Just to check on how well your boat is thought out, I would appreciate a picture of it with the dinghy in stored position. I am including mine below; pls. note the solar panels on top as well as satellite and other antennas:
__________________

__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dinghy, men

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mainsail Disappointment :( ADMPRTR Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 15 23-07-2011 03:49
'Oh Joy' Restoration - Finally Getting into it . . . CharlieCobra Construction, Maintenance & Refit 11 04-05-2009 08:58
'Oh Joy' Restoration - Well, She's Finally Feet Dry CharlieCobra Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 27-08-2008 17:20
30 Years Between Marinas - FL Disappointment Jay Jennings Off Topic Forum 15 24-01-2008 08:29
Articles from Joy Smith GordMay The Library 0 22-05-2007 04:25


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.