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Old 19-06-2017, 06:16   #61
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Riding style greatly affects how far you can go, without getting tired.

You posited the "middle aged guy in average physical condition" riding 50 miles. You are obviously way more fit and bike experienced than this hypothetical average guy - he does not know what a pace line or criterium is, does not know what KOM stands for, and his legs would die before he got to 50 miles no matter how many gears you gave him. Now if you gave him unlimited rest time, I imagine he could do it in 4 or 5 days

As to my capability . . . . I am closer to this average middle aged guy than you are and I am just not that bike fit. You know there is a concept of "base miles", and I have none. I only re-started riding again 3 weeks ago, was last on a bike 25 years ago. I made a personal commitment to do some riding vacation up in Vermont this fall in leaf season, as sort of a celebration of my mother's life (she biked a lot up there and will be dead before fall). That means I need minimum to be able to do 30 miles (hopefully further), over hills, for days in a row.

But 50 miles in non-mountainous terrain? Without panniers or load? On a decent bike with a frame which doesn't flex, plenty of gears, and cleats? Child's play. I think most people on here could do it.

Well, we can agree to disagree then. I would guess that less than 20% of the people here could do it in under 6 hours. If you do not have a certain (pretty significant) amount of base leg fitness, your legs will just fail. I know personally 3 weeks ago I would have had no hope of completing 50 miles, and I have been reading the 'beginner threads' on the bike forums and figure I am pretty typical.

back to thread . . . . As to bikes on boats in general . . . our experience was depends a lot of where you cruise. We tended to cruise places where there were not much for roads, so hiking was vastly preferred. Much of Europe is obviously prime bike country. USA can be a mixed bag, the rural areas are often perfect, but the urban areas are often pretty bike unfriendly.

We had room for them, were actually given a set of pretty good fold ups, but never carried them.

.............
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Old 19-06-2017, 06:19   #62
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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But what "good road bike" is restricted to speeds under 30 mph like the folder?
Yes, if you read the thread from the beginning, I specifically noted that the main difference between 20" bike and normal road bikes, is downhill speed. I can go fast downhill with much more confidence on a full size bike.

On flats, or climbing hills, there is no difference which I am capable of feeling.
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Old 19-06-2017, 06:42   #63
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
..You posited the "middle aged guy in average physical condition" riding 50 miles. You are obviously way more fit and bike experienced than this hypothetical average guy - he does not know what a pace line or criterium is, does not know what KOM stands for, and his legs would die before he got to 50 miles no matter how many gears you gave him. Now if you gave him unlimited rest time, I imagine he could do it in 4 or 5 days

As to my capability . . . . I am closer to this average middle aged guy than you are and I am just not that bike fit. You know there is a concept of "base miles", and I have none. I only re-started riding again 3 weeks ago, was last on a bike 25 years ago. I made a personal commitment to do some riding vacation up in Vermont this fall in leaf season, as sort of a celebration of my mother's life (she biked a lot up there and will be dead before fall). That means I need minimum to be able to do 30 miles (hopefully further), over hills, for days in a row.

But 50 miles in non-mountainous terrain? Without panniers or load? On a decent bike with a frame which doesn't flex, plenty of gears, and cleats? Child's play. I think most people on here could do it.

Well, we can agree to disagree then. I would guess that less than 20% of the people here could do it in under 6 hours. If you do not have a certain (pretty significant) amount of base leg fitness, your legs will just fail............

Well, the Russians have a saying -- tishe edish', dal'she budesh' . . .

Drive slower; get further.

Cycling is far more efficient than walking, and does not stress any muscle beyond aerobic limits, unless you are pushing the whole leg. There is some pace, for just about anyone, which will be sustainable for more or less unlimited distances, limited only by the necessity to eat, sleep, and eliminate. So if you went riding with me, when Iím riding for pleasure, Iím absolutely sure that we would knock out 50 miles without your even breaking a sweat. It would take a while compared to the way you are, no doubt, practicing on your racing bike. But it is a supremely pleasant way to pass an afternoon. If you come to Cowes sometime after August this year when I get back from the Baltic, we can circumnavigate the Isle of Wight on bicycles -- you'll enjoy it, I promise. See: https://www.visitisleofwight.co.uk/i...e-island-route

It's an easy day's ride, not too hilly, with a nice pub lunch break in the middle. About 65 miles. A favorite way for me to pass Sundays when I'm sick of performing the boat repair list.

As I said, I am not in real athletic condition, and Iím not capable of riding at the pace I used to when I was riding seriously. But I ride at least 100 miles most weeks when Iím not at sea, ever since I gave up cars.
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Old 19-06-2017, 07:29   #64
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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You posited the "middle aged guy in average physical condition" riding 50 miles.
If I made 5-10 miles without cramping, I would consider myself lucky!
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Old 19-06-2017, 07:51   #65
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

A 20" bike is more work than a 26. More pedaling per mile. Bigger wheels have a mechanical advantage based on the square of the tire radius.. Also riding 5 or 6 hours is a young man's game even on level ground. For those not in that category I like my folding electric 20 incher.
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Old 19-06-2017, 07:55   #66
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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A 20" bike is more work than a 26. More pedaling per mile. Bigger wheels have a mechanical advantage based on the square of the tire radius..
That's actually not true, because it's compensated by gearing in all 20" bikes you can buy.

My 27 speed Dahon, for example, has the same range of gearing as my full size road bikes.

In any case, "mechanical advantage" works backwards, from what you wrote. Without any compensation in the gearing, smaller wheel gives GREATER mechanical advantage -- i.e. a lower gear, like a longer lever. A higher gear is a mechanical DISadvantage -- like a shorter lever.
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Old 19-06-2017, 07:56   #67
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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If I made 5-10 miles without cramping, I would consider myself lucky!
With the right gearing and the right technique -- shifting often and avoiding "pushing" -- you'd be fine!
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Old 19-06-2017, 08:20   #68
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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You might wanna explain that to the skateboarders that speed down hill at 50mph.
I rode the 10,000 ft down Mt Haleakala on my 16 inch Dahon, and the handbrakes /rims kept overheating--less surface area to dissipate the heat. Had to stop a half dozen times, but I made it.

Twenty five miles was a good day on that bike--it definitely had more wheel friction, plus one of the old 3 speed hubs. But it was better than walking 25 miles a day.
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Old 19-06-2017, 08:22   #69
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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If I made 5-10 miles without cramping, I would consider myself lucky!
Lets see im a middle-aged man who if you read my medical files should not be able to walk let alone ride a bike and I do an average of 25 to 30 miles per day in hilly terrain on my 1991 dahon stowaway 3speed. (Hence my pushing the bike and walking up steeper hills. )
Right now we are on the train to seattle.
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Old 19-06-2017, 08:37   #70
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
That's actually not true, because it's compensated by gearing in all 20" bikes you can buy.

My 27 speed Dahon, for example, has the same range of gearing as my full size road bikes.

In any case, "mechanical advantage" works backwards, from what you wrote. Without any compensation in the gearing, smaller wheel gives GREATER mechanical advantage -- i.e. a lower gear, like a longer lever. A higher gear is a mechanical DISadvantage -- like a shorter lever.
You need 27 granny gears for exploring town? My Brompton has three, my wife with bad knees uses six.
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Old 19-06-2017, 12:36   #71
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Lets see im a middle-aged man who if you read my medical files should not be able to walk let alone ride a bike and I do an average of 25 to 30 miles per day in hilly terrain on my 1991 dahon stowaway 3speed. (Hence my pushing the bike and walking up steeper hills. )
Right now we are on the train to seattle.
!
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Old 19-06-2017, 12:39   #72
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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You need 27 granny gears for exploring town? My Brompton has three, my wife with bad knees uses six.
Yes, I do. Although, I use it for far more than "exploring town", if you've been reading the thread.
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Old 19-06-2017, 12:39   #73
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Right now we are on the train to seattle.
Full size or fold up ?
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Old 19-06-2017, 13:34   #74
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

For all of my teasing of Dockhead, I agree with most of what he has said. I hope it was taken as good natured. As a bicycle enthusiast and 3-5 x per week rider, I love the topic and respect anyone who gets out there. Specifically...

* Most people push WAY to high a gear. Experienced riders, tourists and racers alike, will use the gears and spin along at 95-105 rpm, sometimes even more. If "pushing," I'm at 105-110 rpm. I'm 56, have had two knee surgeries and I NEVER stand on the pedals.
* If going for distance, you should almost never feel any burn. Maintain a pace you can keep all day.
* Fit the bike. Seat height and fore-aft position, handle bar height and reach, and placement of the cleats on the shoes are all critical to long term injury-free riding. If you are not experienced, get help.
* Lean. Bike racer bars, or at least relatively narrow bars set not too high, are best. Sitting up straight, without distributing weight, and your fanny will tell you all about it. It may not feel natural at first, but this posture is very well proven. The narrow seats are actually the most comfortable when used with the correct posture. If you sit up straight, you need a fatter, wide seat, and there will be more friction and more bruising of the glutes.
* Get cleats. Learning to use them is part of learning to ride. They are NOT just a racer thing. Same with some manner of proper shorts (they do not have to be black spandex, if that offends you, although that is best).

All of this is true for distance touring. It's not just racer stuff.
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Old 19-06-2017, 13:39   #75
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

Obviously there are different types of bikies , there are the more discerning ones who have proper bikes and who are somewhat more enthusiastic about their biking and their bikes and will make the effort , even sacrafices , to have them with them to enjoy / use whenever / however the opertunity / need arises , and there are those who would rather give 10$ to a street urchin for some wreck with flat tyres and rusty chain and prob little or no brakes and of unknown origin . Personally I like to have a good reliable one which I know I can trust , and look after , one which I can use for all occasions ( road racing being an exception ) and not be dependant on nice smooth roads , preferably no roads at all , just a goat track !!
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