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Old 19-06-2017, 01:29   #46
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Originally Posted by Krabimike View Post
Hmmm
Following.... as we have lived on our 450 11 months. I often miss my bike. But I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out a good spot and a way to haul 2 bikes as the wife would want hers too.. But there are times when we would really really use them. But so much of the time they would just set. And from what I come up with, really in the way. The other issue is packing them to shore in the dinghy would be a Constant pain! If we were at a marina most of the time. I could see it working. But we are on the hook 85% of the time.
However seeing this tread makes me reconsider the idea.
Thanks
You are not wrong.

There is never enough space on any cruising boat for anything, and storing a bicycle (or even much worse, two of them), even on a large boat, is a royal PITA. You really have to be committed and willing to pay the price in storage. I had two folding bikes and got rid of the underutilized second one for this very reason.

Another thing might be to choose a bike which stores better. My Dahon is carp for this -- I supposed a full sized bike wouldn't be all that much worse. 16" bikes are much better, especially something like a Brommie which is cleverly designed to fold better. For many people this will be a better solution, but forget about long rides and stretching your legs, on something like that, which is made for short urban trips.
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Old 19-06-2017, 01:32   #47
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
We keep two Bromptons folded up inside padded, quilted storage bags, which can be stacked anywhere on the boat. We recently took them on a train from Venice, they fit on the overhead.

Try that with a full size.
Yes, Brommies are the killer app where storage is crucial. I've never seen any bike which folds up like they do.

I only question the phrase "anywhere on the boat". Surely you exaggerate.

Unless I have an empty sleeping cabin, which I sometimes have but usually don't when going long distances, there are not all that many places on my boat -- similar in size to yours -- where I could store even a Brommie. Under the forward v-berth is one place, but that space is full. My lazarette is where I keep my Dahon, once upon a time two Dahons, but it occupies a significant percentage of the available space, forcing me to keep a spare headsail in the salon. On passage, I could keep a couple of Brommies in my large after heads compartment -- if I could find a way to keep them from sliding around.

The point is -- even on a larger cruising boat, even with extremely compact folders like Brommies -- it's hard to find storage space.
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Old 19-06-2017, 01:32   #48
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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I would shoot my wifey if she left my ( now her ! ). Gary fisher sugar 3 classic full sus ( manitou / cane creek ) mtb out in the salty conditions !!!
OK. Some lateral thinking. Many years ago we sailed into Geraldton Harbour in Western Australia. We needed bikes to venture into town. So we confronted a local teenager and after a bit of a chat we had three bikes for our use. Nominal cost. No oil, no maintenance, no rust.
OK, so not all places have such a "market place", but it surely was convenient and very cheap. Took the teenager out on a day trip. Eternally grateful. We left the bikes back in his hands. No storage issues at all.
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Old 19-06-2017, 01:34   #49
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Good one! But 20" wheels don't affect speed, except downhill!
You might wanna explain that to the skateboarders that speed down hill at 50mph.
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Old 19-06-2017, 02:02   #50
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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[I] 20" wheels don't affect speed, except downhill!
I don't have any issues with the downhill speed or the much slower uphill speed. If I was concerned about speed I wouldn't have a sailboat.
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Old 19-06-2017, 02:10   #51
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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You might wanna explain that to the skateboarders that speed down hill at 50mph.
I am not moved by this example. Because:

1. They are totally bat-shirt crazy, and I am not.
2. They are much closer to the ground.


As I said, I was never much good downhill -- never had the balls for it. Maybe because of too many motorcycle accidents as a teenager.

I spent one spring training to enter criteriums with a group of racing friends. I was the king of the hills in that bunch, but I could never keep up with them downhill, and so I finally dropped out. My best friend and training partner was, ironically, "Downhill Dick" Durham. Much older than me, in his 40's, but still formidable. I would blow past him up hill, and he would blow past me coming down -- it was funny. We used to work out on rollers together too. His entire body was covered in scars -- I think actually that this is what discouraged me from trying to develop my downhill skills.


In any case, smaller wheel bikes are MUCH less stable at high speeds. Because the gyroscopic stabilizing force is less with a smaller wheel. If I can kind of stand going 30mph or so downhill on a normal road bike, on my 20" folder -- fuggedaboutit.
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Old 19-06-2017, 02:13   #52
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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OK. Some lateral thinking. Many years ago we sailed into Geraldton Harbour in Western Australia. We needed bikes to venture into town. So we confronted a local teenager and after a bit of a chat we had three bikes for our use. Nominal cost. No oil, no maintenance, no rust.
OK, so not all places have such a "market place", but it surely was convenient and very cheap. Took the teenager out on a day trip. Eternally grateful. We left the bikes back in his hands. No storage issues at all.
That's actually a fairly common model. I know a number of cruisers who do that. Instead of storing bikes, they buy a couple of beaters in every port they plan to spend a little more time, and then give them away when they leave.

Wouldn't work for me, because I don't stay long enough in one place. Just because I'm only one day in a given port, doesn't mean I don't need my bike.
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Old 19-06-2017, 04:54   #53
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Two Trek, full size bikes on the bow. Plastic crank and sprockets, carbon fiber and aircraft aluminum and best of all Gates belt drive .... Ultra light and nothing to rust. My 5'2" 115lb. wife can carry both of them.
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What Trek models are those?
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Trek District
Thanks.

Maybe they don't make that exact model anymore. Looks like both "District" models on their website now have steel frames... weigh just over 29-lbs...

-Chris
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Old 19-06-2017, 05:03   #54
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

Speaking of 20" bicycles:

It was Alex Moulton who came up with the idea of using smaller wheels coupled with a suspension, to make up for the loss of compliance (and plus some).

It was supposed to be the "bicycle of the future". It wasn't, but some speed records were set with Moulton's small wheel, full suspension bikes.
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Old 19-06-2017, 05:34   #55
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Thanks.

Maybe they don't make that exact model anymore. Looks like both "District" models on their website now have steel frames... weigh just over 29-lbs...

-Chris
Just checked and you are correct they've stopped making it. In searching I also found several versions (steel frames, aluminum frames, 8-speed in hub, single speed)but mine are like this one on Ebay.
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Old 19-06-2017, 06:19   #56
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

Speed may or may not be affected by small wheels, I personally think it is. I won't argue on that point, but energy rolling efficiency definitely is. Physics says that, and you can't argue with physics, that was the first subject I taught in college.

As for storing 2 bikes, one of the other thoughts on my disassembling bike is to allow extra pieces to be installed and turn my single place bike into a tandem bike for 2. Basically add another 4 frame pieces, seat post with single chain ring crank set, seat with handlebars, upper and lower frame members and a cross piece, I would use one of the 3 chain rings to connect the forward pedals. So you would lose some gearing range.

These extra parts could mostly be parts of a 2nd bike frame, so you take what you need in the dinghy. Do you want 2 bikes or a single tandem bike
with reduced gearing range when you get ashore?

My take apart wheels should be made to support the extra weight, but I like stuff to be over built anyway. I need to get back to working on this project, I basically got it done and so moved on to other things like the smaller composting toilet, general maintenance, and installing the 4kw generator, and the walk in tub, etc, etc.
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Old 19-06-2017, 06:31   #57
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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I actually think a good 20" folder rides more or less equally to a good road bike.
But what "good road bike" is restricted to speeds under 30 mph like the folder?
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Old 19-06-2017, 06:40   #58
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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High on top of a mountain there stood an old bull and a young bull.

Both of them were leering at the young heifers down in the valley quite a distance away.

The young bull was snorting, huffing and puffing, pacing back and forth, etc.

Finally, after a while, the young bull said…

“Say, why don’t we run down this mountain and have our way with one of them?”

The old bull pondered for a moment, smiled, leaned over, and calmly said…

“Why don’t we walk down the mountain and have our way with all of them!


Good one! But 20" wheels don't affect speed, except downhill!
And while the old bull is sauntering around he finds the young bull has been there yesterday and done the business with them all already !!!
Somehow I can't see the TDF boys all jumping on 20" ers for their almost totally flat time trials , or anything else . There is a reason why all , ( apart from kids bikes ) use 26 " wheels , in fact a lot of bikes now use 27.5 , having come back down from 29 .
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Old 19-06-2017, 06:45   #59
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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Once you go 'bent you'll never go back. The test is to go on an organized day ride with both types involved. When you get to a rest stop take a close look. You will see lots of conventional bikes laying on the grass or propped against what's available. Riders standing eating and drinking but away from their bikes.
It doesn't work like that with the groups I ride with, as far as I can recall. But why on earth would that be "the test"? What about 'the test' of getting a bent over a kerb, or up a few km of 8% climb?
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Old 19-06-2017, 07:09   #60
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Re: Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

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And while the old bull is sauntering around he finds the young bull has been there yesterday and done the business with them all already !!!
Somehow I can't see the TDF boys all jumping on 20" ers for their almost totally flat time trials , or anything else . There is a reason why all , ( apart from kids bikes ) use 26 " wheels , in fact a lot of bikes now use 27.5 , having come back down from 29 .
I don't know.

I do know that some speed records for non-recumbent bikes were held, maybe still are held, by Moultons.

I think wind resistance is a bit less for small wheels; rolling resistance maybe a bit more.

If there is any overall difference, it is small, and I can't feel it in normal riding. Maybe a better rider than I can, but I can't. I have road bikes and MTBs besides the Jetstream, and my pace on the Jetstream is exactly the same as on the road bikes.

YMMV.
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