A dinghy as a lifeboat

[grantmc]

An interesting and thought provoking topic raised by the OP. First don’t assume because it’s a liferaft then it has a roof. That’s an optional extra and/or model dependent.

The big difference is the length of time spent. They’re generally intended to keep occupants safe for a few hours whilst they wait for rescue. Liferafts are virtually impossible to ‘steer’, they float at the vagaries of the wind.

And I would respectfully suggest that the only people who’d prefer the confines of floating in a liferaft vs sitting in a dinghy of any description have never spent any time in a liferaft. And any old sail will act as a cover for a dinghy and can be jury rigged. Consider bodily functions for a moment too, few liferafts come equipped with an en suite.

There has been much written about the comparison. If the worst happens I would take both take both the dinghy and the liferaft. And I would prefer a 'hard' dinghy in preference to a rib.

Much of course depends on where you're sailing. If you're going to b e somewhere within helicopter range an EPIRB will get you saved same day. But down in the Southern Ocean, not so much.

A really good reference is Steve Callaghan’s book about his ordeal: Adrift, 76 days at Sea. He went on to help with the standards and design of liferafts. In his book there’s also an excellent section on how to use a dinghy as a raft.

Dougal Stevenson’s book The Last Voyage of Lucette offers similar advice. For the Stevensons having both the dinghy and the raft saved their lives.

[Cpt Mark]

Buddy of mine has the Portland Pudgy. It is a pretty nice dink and the thought process is that unlike a life raft, you can sail your way to safety and self rescue. Part of his rationale by the way is our boats cannot sink. They can burn to the waterline and still float. One advantage of a catamaran with 4 foam filled, sealed compartments.

A traditional life raft is tiny inside if sized correctly which is is key for safety per their design. They are soft and squishy inside.

The PP is a hard dink with even less room inside.

Is the PP better than nothing? Yes. Is it better than a traditional life raft? Guess that may depend on the situation and where you find yourself when you're in either one.

I looked at the PP and went with a traditional life raft. My 2nd one that like my 1st one I hope only sees the light of day during servicing LOL.

[thinwater]

Leaving the mid-ocean debate to others...


A savvy coastal sailor will not have his boat taken down by monstrous waves. That is what weather forecasting is for. At most, we're talking gale moderate conditions and something failed or they hit something, like a log.


I would think a good inflatable with a sea anchor could weather an awful lot. The anchor is important to avoid flipping. If you are even considering a raft, you should already have a drogue for the main boat, and any drogue big enough for the main boat will be a sea anchor for the dingy. Just grab it on the way.


But I always sailed multihulls, so fire was the only real worry. Stay with the boat, even if inverted, until the weather settles, then sort out the inflatable.

[Emouchet]

A dinghy is a dinghy. It offers no protection. And you may not have time to untie it, or finishing pumping air into it. With a 15hp engine, after it flips in the water, you will not be able to flip it back...

A liferaft is designed for lifesaving under emergency condition, last option after when abandoning ship.

In both case, the living condition will be terrible.

[boatman61]

A half inflated dinghy floats just fine and is less likely to flip.. I have never used a 15hp, 5hp has always been enough for me and it sits on the pushpit bracket when not being used.
When sorted I can pump up the tubes at leisure to the rigidity needed or then deflate to a safer level for conditions.
Do wish someone would come up with another Tinker Tramp style dinghy though.. buy one like a shot.

[Tayana42]

I sailed coastal for many years without a life raft. First a hard dinghy and later an inflatable were both tender and somewhere to go if we had to leave the mothership. Fortunately we never did.

When we were planning longer distances cruises to Mexico I didn’t want to have to tow the dinghy. It would be rolled up and stored, not quickly redeployed. I struggled with the cost versus probability of need for a life raft. If I was cruising solo I might have forgone the expense of a raft. However, I had my wife to think about too. If we needed to abandon ship would I want to be in the position of not having a life raft? So, we bought one. Although we have never had to use it I don’t regret the choice to have it.

If you carry your dinghy fully prepared and quickly launch-able, if you are sailing in areas where conditions are not severe and where you can count on rescue in hours rather than days or weeks you may make a different calculation of the need for a raft. It’s up to you to decide how much risk is acceptable for you and the people whose lives for whom you are responsible.

[KP44]

There are trade-offs in everything.
Even the beat raft is a poor substitute for a ship.

I opt for thinking of my inflatable dingy as our means of survival in a very rare, unthinkable situation. We are in the Sea of Cortez with no ocean swell and always within 40 miles of land. I might think differently if I were crossing oceans.

[CarlF]

I think most liferaft "thinking" is 30 years out of date - before the EBIRB "changed everything"

If you sail in high latitudes there's a good argument for a traditional liferaft because rescue may be delayed. But even here, there's no reason to think you'd be alone for more than 48 hours.

But in the waters that 99% of us voyage, an EPIRB will bring help within 24 hours. To survive 24 hours you have to avoid hypothermia and in some waters sharks - not much else.

I know a professional captain who had a catamaran flip in what seems to have been a waterspout in an afterdark frontal passage. He and the crew waited for rescue (about 12 hours) in the dinghy tied between the upturned hulls. The CG sent a jet and then rerouted a ship. They also had survival suits which he considered critical to staying warm in the dinghy.

While I still have an old but serviceable out of inspection liferaft aboard - in an emergency I would stay aboard even a wreck or use the dinghy. To the second, I have a knife lashed to the davits to cut the dinghy straps and falls. I also carry survival suits.

My "goto" distress beacon is my Inreach as SAR can immediately confirm my situation and start the rescue an hour or two quicker than with an EPIRB (I also have a backup EPIRB that I would activate if there wasn't a quick response on the InReach). The ditch bag also has a 2nd EPIRB, two VHF radios, and an AIS MOB beacon that I would also activate the moment I had to abandon ship to light up any ships's AIS display within about 15 miles.

[Maka]

Just my opinion.


My RIB is my Life Boat.
A life raft is inflatable too. So the inflatable part is equal.
My Ditch Bag has more gear in it than a life raft comes with.


Most importantly to me is the fact that my RIB is navigable where a life raft is not.
So while I am waiting to be rescued, I can proceed to rescue my self and crew.


Think of Captain Bligh's epic voyage after being dropped off of the Bounty. He never could have survived in a life raft.

[Simi 60]

When I did my coxswains course we did a liferaft simulation boarding, pulling others in and righting a flipped one all while wearing lifejackets.

Real eye opener, totally exhausting and a lot harder than you think and all this was done in a flat water Olympic swimming pool.

I'll take my chances with the big boat and step UP into a decent dinghy with a foam collar thanks.

http://boatcollar.com.au

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I think most liferaft "thinking" is 30 years out of date - before the EBIRB "changed everything"

If you sail in high latitudes there's a good argument for a traditional liferaft because rescue may be delayed. But even here, there's no reason to think you'd be alone for more than 48 hours.

But in the waters that 99% of us voyage, an EPIRB will bring help within 24 hours. To survive 24 hours you have to avoid hypothermia and in some waters sharks - not much else.

I know a professional captain who had a catamaran flip in what seems to have been a waterspout in an afterdark frontal passage. He and the crew waited for rescue (about 12 hours) in the dinghy tied between the upturned hulls. The CG sent a jet and then rerouted a ship. They also had survival suits which he considered critical to staying warm in the dinghy.

While I still have an old but serviceable out of inspection liferaft aboard - in an emergency I would stay aboard even a wreck or use the dinghy. To the second, I have a knife lashed to the davits to cut the dinghy straps and falls. I also carry survival suits.

My "goto" distress beacon is my Inreach as SAR can immediately confirm my situation and start the rescue an hour or two quicker than with an EPIRB (I also have a backup EPIRB that I would activate if there wasn't a quick response on the InReach). The ditch bag also has a 2nd EPIRB, two VHF radios, and an AIS MOB beacon that I would also activate the moment I had to abandon ship to light up any ships's AIS display within about 15 miles.

Well, to each his own, I guess.

Beyond a certain sea state, a dinghy can't keep you out of the water.

Around a coast in warmish water that might be OK.

But 12 hours in the water, even warm water, is probably not survivable in storm conditions.

And in cold water, like where I sail, like anywhere in Northern European waters, your survival time might be measured in minutes, if you end up in the drink.

A dinghy is fine, and even preferable to a raft, as long as the sea state is moderate. But at a certain point, in worse weather, the dinghy WILL flip, and the crew WILL go into the water. This may or may not be survivable, and will hardly be survivable in really cold water.

Which I guess is why one of the very few legal requirements for private yachts of my size in the UK, in a country with no license or registration, or any tax, holding tank, etc etc, is that I am obliged to carry a life raft.

Think of a life raft as simply a way to stay out of the water if the mother ship sinks or burns. Do you need this capability? It depends, of course, but I think that those who really don't are rather less than 99%.

[Kerry1]

I remember reading a survival story relating to the sinking of a yacht off the coast of Sth. America where a family and crew had to take to their liferaft and their dinghy to survive something like 90 or 120 days at sea. Their "life raft" was eventually abandoned in favour of their open dinghy because the stitching and chafe was so great that it was eventually useless. Any small craft is liable to flipping of course in any sizeable seaway, but if they actually hang together and the crew has the energy, I guess they can be flipped over again and baled out. Of course there are limits as to how long this can be survived, but I think they proved the reality that anything that can stay afloat makes survival possible. They were eventually rescued by a freighter. No doubt this story is remembered by other forumers. Make of liferaft would be an interesting comment.

[olaf hart]

Originally Posted by boatman61

A half inflated dinghy floats just fine and is less likely to flip.. I have never used a 15hp, 5hp has always been enough for me and it sits on the pushpit bracket when not being used.
When sorted I can pump up the tubes at leisure to the rigidity needed or then deflate to a safer level for conditions.
Do wish someone would come up with another Tinker Tramp style dinghy though.. buy one like a shot.

Zodiac made one too

[powsmias]

portlandpudgy.com

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Kerry1

I remember reading a survival story relating to the sinking of a yacht off the coast of Sth. America where a family and crew had to take to their liferaft and their dinghy to survive something like 90 or 120 days at sea.

The book is an interesting read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dougal_Robertson