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Old 07-10-2016, 15:08   #61
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
I'm thinking the 5 hp 4 stroke will get about 4X the gas mileage of your old 1955 10 hp Johnson under the same workload.

I use my big 5 to push my 6600 lb Bristol 27. Sometime across the 20 miles of bay here

I've had 6-8 old 2 stroke Johnsons and Evinrudes. I know the drill.....I also had a 2 stroke Merc. The cover was white! I was 16 or 17 years old when I bought it


The first 4 stroke I owned was a 1960 something Homelite 55hp. I couldn't believe how far it would take you on 6 gallons of gas
Couldn't tell ya. I'll probably never own a 55lb 5hp outboard. And our current dinghy says max 2hp.

Looks like Tacoma Sailor's 9.8hp 2 stroke beat me up on the weight for around 10hp at 58lbs.
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Old 07-10-2016, 15:45   #62
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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Couldn't tell ya. I'll probably never own a 55lb 5hp outboard. And our current dinghy says max 2hp.

Looks like Tacoma Sailor's 9.8hp 2 stroke beat me up on the weight for around 10hp at 58lbs.
Got it.

Maybe the Mercury 3.5 four stroke would be more to your liking at 40 lbs

https://marinaengine.com/mercury-3-5...ard-motor.html

I'm always amazed at cruising sailors worrying about dinghy speed.

They travel thousands of miles at 4-8 knots then suddenly turn into Maverick on Top Gun once they get into their dinghy!

I FEEL THE NEED, THE NEED FOR SPEED!




Or maybe when these guys get near shore their world turns around.....


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Old 07-10-2016, 16:24   #63
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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So I just bought a 2 stroke 15hp Yamaha in Malaysia. I should be arriving for a 3 month visit when I sail back to the USA in 2018. Problems?
It depends.

If you are talking a foreign-flag boat with foreign crew that clears into the US as tourists (with cruising license or normal in-out) the Feds will not require proof of EPA compliance for the engines.

If you are "importing" the boat (entering the US on a boat that has not left the US on temporary export before and with no time limit on the boat´s stay) then you are supposed to say so, fill a few forms and prove EPA compliance of the engines. This is supposed to be the case when an American buys a foreing-made made boat outside the US and takes it into the the US.

The glitch is that if the boat has reg papers from the US owners will typically get away with going in as if the boat had already imported into the US before(and paid duty, and showed EPA compliance, etc). The trick is that if that owner carries a newish non-compliant outboard that may raise a red flag (and rightly so!) and someone may ask questions that lead rhe Feds to ask about duty on the big boat... I would not think about playing with that sort of fire...
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Old 07-10-2016, 17:08   #64
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
...

2 strokes are being made by most of the manufacturers outside of the US. They are simply not allowed to be imported and sold in the US if they don't meet emissions requirements. United States EPA can't tell foreign manufacturer what it can and can't manufacture and sell outside of the US. It can only dictate what is allowed to be imported and sold in the US.
The USA is hurting its citizens to reduce exhaust emissions while the rest of the world is laughing.
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Old 07-10-2016, 17:13   #65
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

Aren't two-strokes lighter than four? What's to do about an older or weaker person handling an outboard on their dinghy? Should not sixty-plus-year-olds have a right to lighter two cylinders?
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Old 07-10-2016, 21:15   #66
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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The USA is hurting its citizens to reduce exhaust emissions while the rest of the world is laughing.
Perhaps Russia, China and India are laughing. Most of the developed world is wondering when the USA is going to smarten up.
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Old 07-10-2016, 21:39   #67
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Got it.

Maybe the Mercury 3.5 four stroke would be more to your liking at 40 lbs
That Mercury 3.5 would do it. I'd need to consult the maker on transom weight.

A 2.3 Honda four stroke lists 29.5 lbs in a regular shaft.

Honda BF2.3 Outboard Engine | 2 hp Portable Outboard Specs and Features


And the 1960's Evinrude Yachtwin fold-up 3 hp 2-stroke at 37lbs including the carrying case.Click image for larger version

Name:	yachtwin.jpeg
Views:	46
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ID:	132499

A fold-up 3hp outboard. They were offered maybe 3 or four years.
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Old 08-10-2016, 05:46   #68
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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Originally Posted by Three Sisters View Post
That Mercury 3.5 would do it. I'd need to consult the maker on transom weight.

A 2.3 Honda four stroke lists 29.5 lbs in a regular shaft.

Honda BF2.3 Outboard Engine | 2 hp Portable Outboard Specs and Features


And the 1960's Evinrude Yachtwin fold-up 3 hp 2-stroke at 37lbs including the carrying case.Attachment 132499

A fold-up 3hp outboard. They were offered maybe 3 or four years.
I like that case. Store below and maybe no gas smell.

One reminder on the 3.5 Mercury and the 2.3 Honda would be the smaller carburetor jets. Folks seem to always be on here with problems going that small. You would just have to take the normal precautions plus maybe treat the fuel with stabilizer

Your fuel mileage though should be incredible I'm thinking with one that small also
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:01   #69
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

As a full time cruiser in the Caribbean, I'm one of those "that worry about dinghy speed". Ordinarily, it's not a huge issue going to and from shore, but we also dive and fish from our 10' RIB. When going outside the anchorage a couple of miles, Speed makes a difference, especially coming back in in the evening. Also, when travelling let's say from Marigot in St. Martin, to Budget Marine on Dutch St. Maarten, it's nice to have the little 15HP Two Stroke Yamaha and not take an hour getting there as well as an hour getting back. I also own a 17 ton boat, and I've had to side saddle up my Dinghy to her before as propulsion. I doubt a 3 or 5 hp four stroke would have gave me the three knots needed for helm control.

I'm not a fan of the smaller four stroke engines. Not only are they heavy and cumbersome, but I don't fancy the way they respond on the throttle, having to change oil, the new electronics, and no one has any idea as of yet if they will ever be as reliable as a two stroke. As far as US laws, I've not had an issue checking into US waters here, and I know many boaties in the US islands that buy a Two stroke on Tórtola because they can't on St. Thomas. Maybe this will change, but I doubt that it will be a huge issue anytime soon.
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:32   #70
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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As a full time cruiser in the Caribbean, I'm one of those "that worry about dinghy speed". Ordinarily, it's not a huge issue going to and from shore, but we also dive and fish from our 10' RIB. When going outside the anchorage a couple of miles, Speed makes a difference, especially coming back in in the evening. Also, when travelling let's say from Marigot in St. Martin, to Budget Marine on Dutch St. Maarten, it's nice to have the little 15HP Two Stroke Yamaha and not take an hour getting there as well as an hour getting back. I also own a 17 ton boat, and I've had to side saddle up my Dinghy to her before as propulsion. I doubt a 3 or 5 hp four stroke would have gave me the three knots needed for helm control.

I'm not a fan of the smaller four stroke engines. Not only are they heavy and cumbersome, but I don't fancy the way they respond on the throttle, having to change oil, the new electronics, and no one has any idea as of yet if they will ever be as reliable as a two stroke. As far as US laws, I've not had an issue checking into US waters here, and I know many boaties in the US islands that buy a Two stroke on Tórtola because they can't on St. Thomas. Maybe this will change, but I doubt that it will be a huge issue anytime soon.
Could take a whole hour getting there and then another whole hour getting back with a smaller 4 stroke? Wow, that is a long time

I sometimes motor back the 20 miles across the bay here on a Sunday morning with my 5 hp 4 stroke outboard due to lack of wind and it does take 3-5 hours depending on wind, tide, etc but it would be similar if I was sailing so it's not a problem, and I'm usually on autopilot either reading or enjoying the sunrise

As far as changing the oil, yeah, I did that last year at some point. Now it's just add gas every now and then. It takes about a gallon/gallon and a half to cross that 20 miles

Like I said before, I've owned 6-8 old 2 strokes. Their sound reminds me of being young since I owned most of them before I was 24 years old.

I'm not against them it's just that the 4 strokes are so much more efficient and you don't have to mess with mixing the oil/gas etc everytime

If I owned a 2 stroke now, I'd use it until it wore out then go with a 4 stroke
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:39   #71
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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Perhaps Russia, China and India are laughing. Most of the developed world is wondering when the USA is going to smarten up.
Russia's emission standards are similar to Europe's.

The US has led the world in emissions standards, and still has more stringent standards than Europe, for many pollutants (there is a difference in emphasis). The US banned lead in gas 20 years before Europe did. Canada simply adopts EPA regulations (with a year or two lag).

But the rest of the world is catching up, thank goodness. A large part of the air pollution in California has drifted there from Asia.

I know it's fun to rag on the US. Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:44   #72
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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Originally Posted by Jsta_Rebel View Post
As a full time cruiser in the Caribbean, I'm one of those "that worry about dinghy speed". Ordinarily, it's not a huge issue going to and from shore, but we also dive and fish from our 10' RIB. When going outside the anchorage a couple of miles, Speed makes a difference, especially coming back in in the evening. Also, when travelling let's say from Marigot in St. Martin, to Budget Marine on Dutch St. Maarten, it's nice to have the little 15HP Two Stroke Yamaha and not take an hour getting there as well as an hour getting back. I also own a 17 ton boat, and I've had to side saddle up my Dinghy to her before as propulsion. I doubt a 3 or 5 hp four stroke would have gave me the three knots needed for helm control.

I'm not a fan of the smaller four stroke engines. Not only are they heavy and cumbersome, but I don't fancy the way they respond on the throttle, having to change oil, the new electronics, and no one has any idea as of yet if they will ever be as reliable as a two stroke. As far as US laws, I've not had an issue checking into US waters here, and I know many boaties in the US islands that buy a Two stroke on Tórtola because they can't on St. Thomas. Maybe this will change, but I doubt that it will be a huge issue anytime soon.
The ability to plane the dinghy can be very, very useful. You don't need it puttering around the harbor, but sometimes you need to make a mile or two, and hull speed on a 10' dinghy is miserable. Also the ability to push it up against head seas.

It's a really tough tradeoff choosing between a heavier outboard with plenty of power, and a light one without it.

With an 8hp four stroke I can plane my dinghy -- just -- with two people on board and a small amount of gear, so long as the people aren't too fat

But not with three.

So it's not the power I WANT, but sort of the power I NEED, to paraphrase Mick Jagger.

Yet it's too heavy to manhandle out of the dinghy in a chop.

Oh, if I could only have 10hp and 22kg of weight . . . .
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:48   #73
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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I like that case. Store below and maybe no gas smell.
It would be foolish and dangerous to store a gasoline fueled engine in an enclosed space on a boat. The case won't make it any safer.
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Old 08-10-2016, 08:12   #74
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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Aren't two-strokes lighter than four? What's to do about an older or weaker person handling an outboard on their dinghy? Should not sixty-plus-year-olds have a right to lighter two cylinders?
And women as well.

The US government doesn't care about its citizens. Think of the problem ethanol has caused boaters.

I'm a bit surprised they haven't actually outlawed the use of engines that don't meet emission standards.
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Old 08-10-2016, 08:27   #75
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Re: 2 strokes illegal in US????

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It would be foolish and dangerous to store a gasoline fueled engine in an enclosed space on a boat. The case won't make it any safer.

It's like anything else, with the proper precautions you could store that engine in an enclosed space on a boat. Run tank dry. Open cap/remove cover and allow excess gas to evaporate etc

How about all the gasoline that is stored on boats in enclosed spaces without ventilation? I think you are allowed 7 gallons by law. The new tanks are excellent for this unlike the glass coke syrup bottles we used to store our gas in!

I've had my engine in the back of my jeep for a couple days with gas in it and had no problem. The cap still fits tight. Lawn mowers also
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