2 strokes illegal???

gettinthere · 04-12-2007, 05:22

In an inquiry to portabote I received this unsolicited piece of info...

"We're getting reports from owners with 2 cycle outboards that, suddenly they're getting ticketed. It's now illegal in all States to use a 2 cycle outboard under 18 hp. Good luck."

Illegal? Haven't heard this. Anyone?

jdoe71 · 04-12-2007, 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettinthere

In an inquiry to portabote I received this unsolicited piece of info...

"We're getting reports from owners with 2 cycle outboards that, suddenly they're getting ticketed. It's now illegal in all States to use a 2 cycle outboard under 18 hp. Good luck."

Illegal? Haven't heard this. Anyone?

I haven't heard of any place outlawing existing ones at least not up here, but last winter we tried to buy a new 2-stroke for the dink and there were no 2 strokes at all under 9.9hp at the boat show. We were told by manufacturer reps that they were legislated out of existence and that ultimately likely all 2-strokes will go this way. The concern is over unburned oil going into the water. Two stroke lovers, don't shoot me, I'm just telling you what we were told.

gettinthere · 04-12-2007, 06:33

jdoe
I think you are right that you cannot find NEW small 2 strokes. But the e-mail I got said USE, not PURCHASE of 2 strokes is illegal in all states. And this was restated after I sent a followup question. BTW, they offered to sell me their 4 stroke with the lowest price in the USA.

S/V Illusion · 04-12-2007, 06:38

There are restrictions on the use of 2-stroke engines in 14 lakes, most of which are in California and all are fresh water. They are not illegal to use elsewhere except by local ordinance.

camaraderie · 04-12-2007, 09:28

There are NO restrictions anywhere in the USA on 2 stroke engines use OR production.
What there are restrictions on is POLLUTION and you can't use MOST 2 strokes in certain restricted areas because of this AND mfr.'s cannot make old fashioned 2 strokes because they do not meed the new emissions standards. They CAN make new technology (direct injection etc.) 2-strokes which DO meet the pollution standards and which CAN be used anywhere.
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Media....6.02.16_02.htm

Unfortunately... I don't think there are any dinghy type motors being produced with this type of technology as the cost complexity restricts use to larger outboards.

**David M** · 04-12-2007, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Unfortunately... I don't think there are any dinghy type motors being produced with this type of technology as the cost complexity restricts use to larger outboards.

Honda makes a 2 horsepower 4-stroke that weighs 27 pounds. That seems pretty small to me.

Honda BF2 4-Stroke Marine Outboard Engine - 2 HP Motor Specs

I am glad 2-strokes are slowly being banned. I don't want raw gas and oil in my drinking water nor do I want it in any water. Yes, oil does eventually saturate into the water column contaminating everything.

gettinthere · 04-12-2007, 10:16

David M
There are plenty of small 4 stroke engines sold today. We're talking 2 stroke engines. There are high hp 2 stroke engines that meet the new standards but small TWO STROKE engines are the subject here.

Actually, the real subject to me isn't 2 or 4, but something else. To be told the USE of 2 stroke engines is illegal in the states and also just happen to pitch the sale of a similar 4 stroke is ------- to me. That's what I'm trying to point out here.
The use of 4 strokes may very well be a good thing vs 2 strokes but being --------- about the law regarding it is something that all buyers need to be aware of.
You can fill in the blanks

**David M** · 04-12-2007, 10:38

So what is the point of even considering buying a clean burning two stroke if the new small 4 strokes are insignificant in their weight differences, pretty much cost the same, yet the 4 strokes are more reliable, burn cleaner, they are quieter and are more fuel efficient? Is there any advantage to a small clean burning 2-stroke over the equivalent HP 4-stroke? How are people who regulate who gets on a lake and who does not supposed to know which are the clean burning two strokes? Besides, who wants to have to listen to a 2-stroke buzzing around?..it's noise pollution as well.

And yeah, I am one of those noise freaks who hates to have to listen to Personal Watercraft (PWC's). If i were king, I would make every last one of them a four-stroke with a 10 foot muffler that drags in the water behind it. They could then jump my wake all day long for all I care.

gettinthere · 04-12-2007, 10:57

Well, there are only thousands upon thousands of small 2 strokes already out there in use. Many, many by cruisers on their dingies.
I've read many accounts that outside the US and Europe, small 4 strokes are very uncommon AND so are people who can fix them.

ssullivan · 04-12-2007, 12:11

Adding to this, I'm about to put a 5hp 2 Stroke Tohatsu (1987) up for sale on eBay.

As always with my marine stuff...

cruisers forum members get first dibs!

Bring any reasonable offers.

jdoe71 · 04-12-2007, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

And yeah, I am one of those noise freaks who hates to have to listen to Personal Watercraft (PWC's). If i were king, I would make every last one of them a four-stroke with a 10 foot muffler that drags in the water behind it. They could then jump my wake all day long for all I care.

If that's your platform you've got my vote! If possible I'd like to be your minister of noise control, I can think of a special way I'd like to deal with those things! Involves making them into recyclable material.

We were initially thinking 2 stroke because we weren't up to speed on 4 strokes as they exist now. It is nowhere near as heavy as I had been led to believe. We're pretty happy with it so far.

44'cruisingcat · 04-12-2007, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

So what is the point of even considering buying a clean burning two stroke if the new small 4 strokes are insignificant in their weight differences, pretty much cost the same, yet the 4 strokes are more reliable, burn cleaner, they are quieter and are more fuel efficient? Is there any advantage to a small clean burning 2-stroke over the equivalent HP 4-stroke? How are people who regulate who gets on a lake and who does not supposed to know which are the clean burning two strokes? Besides, who wants to have to listen to a 2-stroke buzzing around?..it's noise pollution as well.

And yeah, I am one of those noise freaks who hates to have to listen to Personal Watercraft (PWC's). If i were king, I would make every last one of them a four-stroke with a 10 foot muffler that drags in the water behind it. They could then jump my wake all day long for all I care.

Modern 2 stroke engines like the Evinrude E-Tecs are as clean as 4 strokes. They are also exceptionally quiet. And although the margin is reducing, they are still lighter for a given power output. The E-Tecs don't require servicing for 3 years too.

Something many people overlook is that 4 stroke engines use oil too. They require regular oil changes. The fact is, a lot of that used engine oil is not recycled - it ends up as landfill (illegally maybe, but it still goes there) and can eventually make it's way into the waterways.

camaraderie · 05-12-2007, 23:21

A 15hp 2 stroke Yamaha suitable for powering a 10 ft. RIB in a cruising situation weighs 79 lbs.
The 4 stroke 15hp honda is 108 lbs. ...one is barely manageable...the other is not.
One can be fixed anywhere...many times by a modestly handy owner...the other cannot.

One pollutes a lot...the other pollutes a little bit.
Cruisers need a reliable, repairable, lightweight, pollution minimal choice in the 10-15hp range. Maybe someone will invent one. For cruising in the US there is no longer any choice.

Steve Pope · 06-12-2007, 00:35

Most light oils (especially 2 stroke oils) evaporate fairly quickly to the point that unless you had 100's of them in the same area you wouldn't notice, The main reason they are / were noticed was the exhaust smoke that used th show years ago before the oils were improved ang petroil mixing rate went up to between 60 to 1 and 100 to 1 from 20 to 1 (Seagull out boards) 2 stroke oils don't have the additives that 4 stroke oils have. when a 4 stroke is well used and wearing out it can / will put oil traces out through the exhaust.

jzk · 26-02-2008, 17:45

At the Miami Boat show, we were told that 2 strokes are now illegal in California, and other states will be following.

This is simply an outright lie. They are only illegal on certain fresh water lakes used for drinking water in California. We ended up buying a 2 stroke Yamaha 15hp. It is a great engine.

04-12-2007, 05:22	#1
gettinthere Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 142	2 strokes illegal??? In an inquiry to portabote I received this unsolicited piece of info... "We're getting reports from owners with 2 cycle outboards that, suddenly they're getting ticketed. It's now illegal in all States to use a 2 cycle outboard under 18 hp. Good luck." Illegal? Haven't heard this. Anyone?

04-12-2007, 10:38	#8
David M Moderator Site Helper Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: San Francisco Bay Posts: 2,899	So what is the point of even considering buying a clean burning two stroke if the new small 4 strokes are insignificant in their weight differences, pretty much cost the same, yet the 4 strokes are more reliable, burn cleaner, they are quieter and are more fuel efficient? Is there any advantage to a small clean burning 2-stroke over the equivalent HP 4-stroke? How are people who regulate who gets on a lake and who does not supposed to know which are the clean burning two strokes? Besides, who wants to have to listen to a 2-stroke buzzing around?..it's noise pollution as well. And yeah, I am one of those noise freaks who hates to have to listen to Personal Watercraft (PWC's). If i were king, I would make every last one of them a four-stroke with a 10 foot muffler that drags in the water behind it. They could then jump my wake all day long for all I care. __________________ David "Marge! Look at all the great stuff I found at the Marina. It was just sitting in some guys boat!" -Homer Simpson Last edited by David M; 04-12-2007 at 10:57..

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04-12-2007, 06:33	#3
gettinthere Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 142	jdoe I think you are right that you cannot find NEW small 2 strokes. But the e-mail I got said USE, not PURCHASE of 2 strokes is illegal in all states. And this was restated after I sent a followup question. BTW, they offered to sell me their 4 stroke with the lowest price in the USA.

04-12-2007, 06:38	#4
S/V Illusion Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Narragansett Bay, RI Posts: 195	There are restrictions on the use of 2-stroke engines in 14 lakes, most of which are in California and all are fresh water. They are not illegal to use elsewhere except by local ordinance.

04-12-2007, 09:28	#5
camaraderie Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: East Coast Posts: 647	There are NO restrictions anywhere in the USA on 2 stroke engines use OR production. What there are restrictions on is POLLUTION and you can't use MOST 2 strokes in certain restricted areas because of this AND mfr.'s cannot make old fashioned 2 strokes because they do not meed the new emissions standards. They CAN make new technology (direct injection etc.) 2-strokes which DO meet the pollution standards and which CAN be used anywhere. http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Media....6.02.16_02.htm Unfortunately... I don't think there are any dinghy type motors being produced with this type of technology as the cost complexity restricts use to larger outboards.

04-12-2007, 10:16	#7
gettinthere Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 142	David M There are plenty of small 4 stroke engines sold today. We're talking 2 stroke engines. There are high hp 2 stroke engines that meet the new standards but small TWO STROKE engines are the subject here. Actually, the real subject to me isn't 2 or 4, but something else. To be told the USE of 2 stroke engines is illegal in the states and also just happen to pitch the sale of a similar 4 stroke is ------- to me. That's what I'm trying to point out here. The use of 4 strokes may very well be a good thing vs 2 strokes but being --------- about the law regarding it is something that all buyers need to be aware of. You can fill in the blanks

04-12-2007, 10:57	#9
gettinthere Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 142	Well, there are only thousands upon thousands of small 2 strokes already out there in use. Many, many by cruisers on their dingies. I've read many accounts that outside the US and Europe, small 4 strokes are very uncommon AND so are people who can fix them.

04-12-2007, 12:11	#10
ssullivan Commercial Vendor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,531 Images: 1	Adding to this, I'm about to put a 5hp 2 Stroke Tohatsu (1987) up for sale on eBay. As always with my marine stuff... cruisers forum members get first dibs! Bring any reasonable offers.

05-12-2007, 23:21	#13
camaraderie Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: East Coast Posts: 647	A 15hp 2 stroke Yamaha suitable for powering a 10 ft. RIB in a cruising situation weighs 79 lbs. The 4 stroke 15hp honda is 108 lbs. ...one is barely manageable...the other is not. One can be fixed anywhere...many times by a modestly handy owner...the other cannot. One pollutes a lot...the other pollutes a little bit. Cruisers need a reliable, repairable, lightweight, pollution minimal choice in the 10-15hp range. Maybe someone will invent one. For cruising in the US there is no longer any choice.

06-12-2007, 00:35	#14
Steve Pope Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Maungaturoto, New Zealand only 10 minutes from the Kaipara harbour, it is a tidal harbour with one of the largest shore lines in the Southern hemisphere, no shortage of sand banks though. Boat: Trismus 37 (alloy) built in 1976 or 1986 depending on who you talk to! Posts: 452	Most light oils (especially 2 stroke oils) evaporate fairly quickly to the point that unless you had 100's of them in the same area you wouldn't notice, The main reason they are / were noticed was the exhaust smoke that used th show years ago before the oils were improved ang petroil mixing rate went up to between 60 to 1 and 100 to 1 from 20 to 1 (Seagull out boards) 2 stroke oils don't have the additives that 4 stroke oils have. when a 4 stroke is well used and wearing out it can / will put oil traces out through the exhaust.

26-02-2008, 17:45	#15
jzk Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 483	At the Miami Boat show, we were told that 2 strokes are now illegal in California, and other states will be following. This is simply an outright lie. They are only illegal on certain fresh water lakes used for drinking water in California. We ended up buying a 2 stroke Yamaha 15hp. It is a great engine.