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Old 27-07-2014, 20:33   #166
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

Well when do u untie this monster? An alpine butterfly would be done by now
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Old 27-07-2014, 20:53   #167
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

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Well when do u untie this monster? An alpine butterfly would be done by now
LOL.
I will post pics shortly. My hands have been tied with other matters. Sorting through the last bits now and will then make a cuppa and download photos .
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Old 27-07-2014, 22:32   #168
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

Now for the report on whether or not Zepp yielded .

Folks, I am very happy to report it was a quick, simple hand job. In fact a two finger operation, as I didn't want to get the other hand holding the camera salty.

The knot slid open as if it had been freshly tied.

This is the first time I have used a Zepp bend in this application (Alpine Butterfly was previously the bend of choice). Looking at the join when it emerged from the sea it was clear the nylon line had remained exactly as it was when I dressed it in the dark (it needed a slight adjustment after the yank as it was so very stiff). See the deck visible through the little gap in the bend in the photo below.

The braided line looked very tight and I did not push it back with my thumb with much confidence, but it just opened right up without any fuss. The same with the nylon line. A two second procedure .

Here is the knot when the snubber was pulled up:
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Old 27-07-2014, 22:39   #169
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

And here it is opened up.

Easier to untie than the Alpine Butterfly, although I have never had that jam on me except when used as a loop with load on the loop. If twin bowlines are used in this application the braided polyester can be undone, but if the nylon line is old and stiff, the knot turns to cement and even a marlin spike will have no joy in getting it open.

The loads were significant over 48 hours with almost constant gusts of 25-35 knots. Despite this the Zepp was a doddle to undo:
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Old 27-07-2014, 22:59   #170
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
And here it is opened up.

Easier to untie than the Alpine Butterfly, although I have never had that jam on me except when used as a loop with load on the loop. If twin bowlines are used in this application the braided polyester can be undone, but if the nylon line is old and stiff, the knot turns to cement and even a marlin spike will have no joy in getting it open.

The loads were significant over 48 hours with almost constant gusts of 25-35 knots. Despite this the Zepp was a doddle to undo:
OMG! Did you have to show it spread wide open like that?
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Old 27-07-2014, 23:01   #171
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

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OMG! Did you have to show it spread wide open like that?
I nearly wrote "The knot slid open as if it had been freshly lubricated" instead of "freshly tied", but I didn't want to give you heart failure .
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Old 28-07-2014, 18:09   #172
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pirate Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

Geez Louise! A simple hand job! I don't think that's asking a lot!!!!!


I'm saving that last photo! (For later. The library has rules.)
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Old 29-07-2014, 06:31   #173
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

This image may help everyone cool down (me included) .

Warning: The following is not for the squeamish .

This is the appearance of a bowline tied in octoplait nylon stiffened by use (soft when unused) after consirable load was applied. When it came to untying it, a marlin spike was useless here, the only device that helped was a knife. Sharp. Serrated.

Note the very weird looking configuration. I was not able to work out how it had reached this state until I cut it apart after photographing it.

I will reproduce this in a moment with some new line and photos will follow.
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Old 29-07-2014, 06:55   #174
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

I found I forgot to photograph the reverse side before cutting the knot to release it (got distracted midway), so I have poked in some double braided dacron to enable you to see how the other side looked.

Heading off for a swim, so the rest of the images will follow later.
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Old 29-07-2014, 14:55   #175
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

I looked at the above jammed bowline with total disbelief today when I first examined it more closely. Had I tied it incorrectly? The loop that I can tie not just with my eyes closed, but in my sleep?

I needed to cut not just once but twice to be able to loosen it (by the way, a serrated knife works best for this purpose). I then reached for some new line and very carefully reproduced each turn to duplicate the jammed knot.

This was the result on one side:
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Old 29-07-2014, 14:56   #176
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

And this was the other side:

I wondered what error I had made to produce a monstrosity like this, so I tightened it up and again photographed it.

Before I submit the next photo any guesses what the resulting loop looked like?
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Old 29-07-2014, 15:30   #177
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

Good GOd! That looks ghastly, your Seaworthiness!
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Old 29-07-2014, 16:12   #178
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
And this was the other side:

I wondered what error I had made to produce a monstrosity like this, so I tightened it up and again photographed it.

Before I submit the next photo any guesses what the resulting loop looked like?
I cheated, I just tied a loose bowline and capsized the initial loop so that it looked exactly like that .
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Old 29-07-2014, 16:19   #179
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

Just played with it a bit more. I can duplicate that mess every time by tying a very loose bowline and putting a snatch load on just the "first" side of the bight. I'd guess the original wasn't dressed properly before having a load applied.
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Old 29-07-2014, 19:53   #180
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Re: Zeppelin Bend - next best thing to sliced bread

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Just played with it a bit more. I can duplicate that mess every time by tying a very loose bowline and putting a snatch load on just the "first" side of the bight. I'd guess the original wasn't dressed properly before having a load applied.
Precisely my conclusion .

Firstly, the nylon would probably have been stiff with prolonged use in salt water under load at the time the bowline was tied. It would have been difficult to tighten up and most likely little time would have been wasted doing this.

Secondly, it was not until recently that I became aware of the importance of dressing knots well before applying load. Many, if not all knots (even the best of the best) are prone to either slippage or jamming or both unless dressed well, particularly if load is applied quickly.

Ease of dressing is an important characteristic of any knot, yet we barely hear anything about this. Or at least it certainly isn't emphasised. So let me do this now:

Many, if not all knots (even the best of the best) are prone to either slippage or jamming or both unless dressed well, particularly if load is applied quickly.

The Zepp bend tied in near identical nylon aged the same way (we have used octoplait for years as a snubber) was very quick to dress. It did take more than just a yank though (but this would probably have sufficed in stronger hands). The braided polyester being softer tightened well with the yank, but I spent a few seconds coaxing the nylon to curve better.

I went back to the old nylon to try tying another bowline in it. It takes ages and is not easy to get all the bits to tighten well in this kind of line.

The ease of dressing is a huge plus for the Zepp bend .
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