Your Sail Wardrobe: What's in it? What's on your wish list?

[Perfusser]

I have new Pentex Single Taffeta Laminate Mainsail and 150% Genoa (No 1.) a new (nut 2nd hand) Mylar 145% Genoa ( No1 1/2), an 30 year old 100% jib,
a 100% yankee (doesn't get used much) and a storm jib- never used by me. I hI also have an old but good 2nd hand spinnaker. These are all kept in the sail locker, on the noom, or on the quarter berth.
In the garage, I have the old main and no 1 genny, and a too small spinnaker,

On my wish list is a No2. No 3 headsail and a 2 new spinnakers.

My Minister for Finance has indicated I may have to wait until I get more new sails, but that may be difficult for me.

[Deltasailor]

Over the years I have had numerous boats and what I have found quality sails are way better value.
On my Endurance 37 I had North Main (slab reefed) Sta sail and yankee (hank on) A spinnaker not in a sock. In the first race I did against a large field of charter and private yachts I was 20 mins ahead of the whole fleet over the water at the finish. Good sails and not charter roller ones.
I bought 2 Feeling 286s for the charter fleet, good little sail boat but ended up replacing the sails 3 times in 10 years.
My Jeanneau has an old but quality genoa still in use after maybe 15 years but had a cheep in mast furler main, looks clean but is rubbish to furl and unfurl probably stretched, I need a new one. I also fly a 80% composite genoa of my 3/4 tonner
Great up wind in a blow. A spinnaker off the same boat is small enough for me to handle single handed up to about 10kts.
Moral: buy good sails.

[sandy stone]

Forgot to mention wants - I'd like to get a high-clewed crosscut 135 for daysailing and cruising (I'd probably deep-six the old 155) and also a flat-cut reaching/chicken 1-1/2 oz chute.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day, Unciv, man of insatiable curiosity!
Jim

Thanks Jim! Yes, if curiosity killed the cat, even with them having 9 lives & all: Then mine's wiped out a whole pride of lions.

Last boat 2-tonner (41’, 9 tons, 8’ fin keel, 6’ spade rudder) with a big rig, & easy to drive hull form. Semi-cruisy interior conversion, for 2-3 (sometimes 4) folks.Sweet ride!
Lots of lines to pull on to play with the sails, fun rig controls, sucky weather protection. Cockpit big enough to flake sails in, & a tiller, both of which I loved.

Sail wise:
Crosscut Dacron Main ~8.5oz, & @ 380sqft, easy enough to keep good shape in it thanks to lots, & lots of the rig controls. Two reefs, plus a flattener.
#1 Converted to bastardized Code 0 via a Kevlar luff tape sewn in. Flown free flying on furling gear.
#1 – Only pulled out on non-solo days, as the boat had but a headfoil up front
#2.5 – Used the most. Tolerable to wrestle solo, or with crew. Only gave up speed to #1 in sub 7kt winds
#3.5 – Heavy air standby, dirt simple to tack
#4 – Ancient, POS. Used when wind hit 25kts or so true, beating/close reaching.Good sail shape, just heavily worn.
Storm Jib. Dacron. Never used
Trysail. Dacron.Never used
Symmetrical spinnakers galore. Loved the ancient poly/mylar one due to shape, & fond memories of racing with one at 19.I’d usually fly kites in up to about 12kts TWS, 15-20kts TWS with crew.

Jibs were mostly Kevlar, some sewn, some laminated. And it was always easy to scrounge more sails from the racing fleet.
Always kept lines for all sails rigged on deck until putting the boat to bed, it made changing sails or lead angles easy. Which contributed to ease of boat handling & speed.And this included 2 jib sheets per side, plus spinnaker gear.

Sails got flaked, & then tri-folded. Stored in a spare bunk below, all but for the kites (aka kids beanbag chairs).

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

Where did you get the idea that bricked sails don't take up much room? My folded sails are a big, heavy handful. And what did you mean by 'ideally I'd have?' What do you really have?

sandy stone, I'm boatless at the moment, so my last love's inventory is posted above.

Not sure what you've got for sails, as I've rarely been on any boat under 50' in the last 20yrs where one firt person couldn't move the sails around. Though 2-3 people makes it much easier.
And when I brick a sail, it winds up tiny. I gave the below how-to instructions to Kenomac, & the spare main for his 53' Oyster wound up being the size of a Scuba tank.

To Brick a sail. You lay it on a flat surface, & flake it as normal. Starting with laying down a section of the sail's foot about 2' wide (or 3' if you like), & then fold layers on top of this, alternating directions with each fold. So that when you're done, you have a package that's 2'+ wide, & perhaps 1/2' high.

Then tightly roll up the flaked sail, starting at the head. Doing your best to keep all of the folds of the luff together. And continue rolling towards the clew till you reach it. So that you wind up with a "cylinder" of sail.
From there, use a few sail ties to secure the package (Bricked sail), so that none of the folds fall out of the sides of the rolled stack. And then, just put it into a sail bag (optionally).


One other option besides bricking, which is easier, & lets you stow a sail in a relatively small amount of space. Is, once you have it flaked. Grab all of the folds, together, at a point about 1/3 of the way back from the head. And then carry them aft together until they're just shy of the clew ring. Followed by securing everything together in this position with sail ties.

This works best with a sail bag that's as long as the foot of the sail, & which has a full length zipper. Plus some strategically placed sail ties sewn onto the outside bag.
Color coding the bags helps to ID each sail, as does putting the sail's number, such as "2" on each end of the bag in 1' high text, using (self stick) insignia cloth.
You flake the sail directly into the unzipped bag, & proceed as above, doing the "tri-fold" thing, & lashing the package together, flat.

This method leaves you with a packaged sail that'll fit into almost any spare bunk. Being only 5'-7' long, 2' wide, & 8" tall if at all compressed. So that you can easily slide 3-6 genoas/jibs into a single person bunk with this method. Pipecots, or pilot berths with lee cloths are great for this.

NOTE: Both of these methods are a lot harder on the fabrics of laminated sails, than they are on Dacron. For long term storage of laminated sails, rolling them up, & stowing them in sausages is better. Sails flaked long term wind up with permanent creases, which are then weak spots.

EDIT: Also, a good sail bag, which fits fairly snugly, & that has substantial handles, goes a long way to assisting in moving the sail around. Plus, have some webbing sewn onto the exterior of the bag, so that you can lash in in place wherever, is a nice perk.

And this is just a common sense idea based on some other sail bag designs. But some cinch/compression straps on the bag are always good. Even if you don't use them every time/right then. But they assist in preventing sails from moving around in their bags.

[roverhi]

On the P35 bought a cross cut dacron full batten main, 135% roller furling, high cut, foam luff Genoa, and a 1.5oz Asym. Spinnaker. Have picked up a 150% light Genoa that I use a lot in our local light air conditions. Also have a 100% jib that I've never used and a couple of regular spinnakers all picked up used cheap. If I'm going anywhere, it's the first three sails and a Gale Sail storm jib. The rest get left in the garage.

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

the spare main for his 53' Oyster wound up being the size of a Scuba tank

Yeah, I guess you're right. My main is something over 300 sq ft, and the 155 must be at least 400 sq ft. Folded up, they each make a package about 2-1/2 ft by 3-1/2 ft by 4 inches or so, weighing a good 30 or 40 lbs apiece. If I rolled them up like you're talking about, they wouldn't be nearly as awkward to move around, but I'd kind of hate to do that with my pretty new sails.
Good luck on finding your next boat.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

the spare main for his 53' Oyster wound up being the size of a Scuba tank.

Must be a small main?

[JPA Cate]

Just a comment here. "Bricking" the sails not in use requires a flat place to do it. Two people together can do it, but at least in our experience, a dock works much better than the deck of our boat (because there's no rigging on the dock, and the dock is straight while the hull is curved). One time we wanted to get both the headsails off the boat and stored below (cyclone stripping).

What happened was that we couldn't get the genoa folded up small enough on deck to fit through the companionway. It had to lie in the cockpit. When there are only two of you, and the conditions are already windy, getting the kind of flaking an rolling that we've been armchair discussing on this thread, will not be very doable for a crew of two, on the boat. The flakes try to move as you round the rig and change directions.

Our mainsail's hoist is 16.2 m, and the foot is 5.7, sail area is 46.2 sq. m., without the roach. It takes two men to carry it. Plus, stowing the battens below, when removed, is a bit of a challenge, as well. I very much doubt anyone could brick it to the size of a scuba tank.

Ann

[UNCIVILIZED]

Ann, I don't know the dimensions of Kenomac's main. But given that he has a 53' Oyster, it can't be small. And I just checked what he'd written about bricking it. Turns out I misspoke slightly. He stated that it wound up being a cylinder about 12" in diameter, & about 3' long. As found here --> http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2130902


One other tip on flaking sails is that at times, a few strategically placed bungee cords, or even stretchy netting, works wonders, while working your way towards the sail's head. As they keep the folds you've already put into the aft section (clew) from moving around too much, if you're short on hands. And when flaking on the dock, a few jerry jugs used as weights can make a huge difference.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

a cylinder about 12" in diameter, & about 3' long.

I can state with certainty, that our 760 sq ft mainsail would not fold or roll into that small a space. Not even if done on a loft floor, but certainly not if rolled/folded on deck. Typically when we did our best for winter storage it would be more like 4' tall and 2' in diameter (after compression straps pulled tight). And as Ann said, would take both of us (or the halyard winch) to lift/move.

The 3DL mainsail folded smaller, and was lighter (one person could move that one). But I doubt many here have 3DL mainsails (and I would not recommend them, for cruising use).

UnCiv, storage space is one of the great constraints on most long distance cruising boats. Usually every tiny small corner of our boats is jammed and every single things is a trade-off - carry a sewing machine vs a spare sail just for instance. And if you actually want to do 200 mile days , you need to be ruthless about weight and honestly a spare main will not make the cut.

[UNCIVILIZED]

There's no question that the ease or difficulty of moving a sail around is very much in proportion to it's mass & bulk. Aided to some degree by technique, & occassionally by mechanical assistance. I'm just relating my experiences with doing so, period. And for me, moving around an 800sqft heavy #1 jib, solo, is definitely possible, & not exhausting. For others, or with other sails, the story can play out differently.

I also know that sais now are a quantum leap more svelte in terms of their weight & bulk as compared to 2 or 3 decades ago. The headsails on the first maxi I raced on at 19, outmassed 2-3 of us combined. And needed a halyard lifting from above, & 3 of us pushing from below, to get it out of the foredeck hatch. Fortunately, sails don't weigh anywhere near that much now, nor are they nearly as bulky.

The other thing is, given my experiences of sailing, when I'm considering buying a boat, one of the things I look for, is where will the spare sails & lines be stored? As, ideally, it's nice to keep said items out of the primary living space as much as is possible.
In my eyes, it's a crime to design a 40'er with 3 cabins, 2 heads, & 0 dedicated sea berths. Along with having almost zero facilities for storing sails, lines, & spares & tools.

Though, yes, I'm also quite familiar with cruising on small boats. Including having sailed all over the Great Lakes on a 22' trailer sailer, with the crew being two 6', 200lb men. Albeit having a lot of backpacking experience helps with such things. But... space & weight prioritization isn't a new concept for me.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

So… I’m curious as to what you guys really keep onboard in terms of your quiver/wardrobe of sails. As well as where you store them, both underway, & when in port.

Me, if it’s not obvious, I’m a big believer in having an inventory which covers the full spectrum of wind strengths & angles. So, “ideally” I’d have:
- Racing/True Code 0 on it’s own furler, probably stored on deck in all but the worst weather. perhaps in it’s bag.
- #2 on the headstay (furler).
- Solent or Staysail, either on deck in it’s bag, or furled up on it’s stay, depending on the rig design.
- Main, on the mast.
- Trysail, bagged at the base of the mast, slides in place on their own track.
- Storm Jib or Storm Staysail down below, within easy reach.
- Spare #2, or a #1 down below. Bricked, so as to be a compact package.
- Ditto a #3, for keeping on the headstay/furler in areas where there’s typically more wind.
- Spare Main, or Heavy air Main. Probably the old one, just in case. Bricked, sans battens, like the jibs.
- 1.5oz Reaching Spinnaker in it’s own sock, stowed in a bag.
- 1.5oz Runner (Optional/A Luxury) in it’s own sock, stowed in a bag.
- A wire luffed Staysail, or Windseeker jib, set free flying on it’s own furling gear (a Luxury sail).

Most (all) of the above sails, combined, when stowed in a semi-tidy fashion would fit into a spare single bunk. Since bricked sails are tiny packages. And spinnakers tend to compress well.

I arguably carry more sails than necessary and I don't have nearly as many as you do. I think your definition of a single bunk is a heck of a lot bigger than mine.

Three-reef main on the boom, full-length battens, heavy cloth above the third reef.
#3 on the furler when offshore
Very light #2 stored in sail locker under the v-berth that can be lifted on a halyard through oversized deck hatch
Hank-on staysail on removable inner forestay always hanked on in a bag offshore; staysail has old fashioned reef points and a pendant
1.5 oz asymmetric spinnaker in a sock, stored in sail locker, launched through deck hatch
0.75 oz symmetric spinnaker in a turtle, stored in sail locker, deployed through deck hatch and launched from turtle on pulpit

No trysail. I don't believe in them.

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

ATN gale sail storm jib in v-berth.

I see lots of ATN gale sails for sale never used. Not a good solution for heavy weather in my opinion. Feedback from use in anger would be valued. My single attempt on a delivery was fruitless.

Originally Posted by estarzinger

storage space is one of the great constraints on most long distance cruising boats. Usually every tiny small corner of our boats is jammed and every single things is a trade-off - carry a sewing machine vs a spare sail just for instance. And if you actually want to do 200 mile days , you need to be ruthless about weight and honestly a spare main will not make the cut.

Definitely agree. That led to my decision to eschew a trysail and to put reef points in my staysail.

[hsi88]

My Catalina 30 came with a new 110% jib and main. To address light air on the Chesapeake, I chose a 165% CCZ type sail with stiffened luff and 1.5 oz. Fibermax cloth. Although free flying, it can be pulled tight to do limited upwind work. As I don't have money for a sail inventory, I wanted a versatile sail that could cover a broad range of wind directions.