Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-10-2010, 10:58   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ft.myers,fl
Boat: rhodes,seafarer,28
Posts: 137
I am a rigger in ft.myers. I would like to take a look at the mast and determine if it's repairable or not.
__________________

__________________
capt.bobfm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2010, 11:43   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California
Boat: Horizon 39
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Roads View Post

The boat has about a 50' mast with three spreaders. Looking straight up the mast you can see the mast bends to port a bunch around the top spreader.

Currently the rigging has no pressure on it as the boat has been sitting and the turn buckles loosened. Putting slight pressure on the stbd standing rigging with my fingers begins the bend the mast straighter again.
How I would approach it as I am also tight

First of all get a plumb bob or piece of string, Get a distance behind mast and check and see weather or not it is 1.5 to 2 diameters out. If mast is quite straight to the top spreader then bends significantly, it is scary, and don't go up. If the bend is gradual, firm up stays and skid up. Inspect both compression and tension side of spreader also sail track for any type flaking, cracking, metal fatigue etc. (get a strip of 1/4" aluminium and bend backwards and forwards until you see what fatigue looks like).

I have climbed a lot of scary things. I don't like sharp bends that are not supposed to be there. Gradual bends, especially if stayed are not a big deal. If you go up in a bosons chair stay on the tension side and not the compression side.

This would be a good exercise before you go to a rigger as you will be better able to understand what he is telling you.

The only reason I would go to a rigger is because he has tools I do not have.

I hope this helps
Good luck
Mike
__________________

__________________
You get your schooling at school and your education when you leave
Mike43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 06:14   #33
Registered User
 
Ocean Roads's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cape Coral-Fort Myers Beach, FL
Boat: Westsail 28
Posts: 277
Images: 9
Capt Bob, I will send you a PM when the times comes.

Wow, someone's other post said that 3 spreader rigs are not designed to cruise oceans. I know they are more complex, but my thoughts are that 3 pairs of spreaders taking the load of one pair will last longer.

Quote:
Personally I would not be comfortable with a triple spreader rig offshore, and certainly not going RTW.
There are two reasons for this
A) the very light section implied by the need for 3 spreaders and running backstays
B) the difficulty in tuning a rig like that.
And after the rig is tuned, how many cruising boats really tune their rig that much unless something is replaced?
__________________
We, the unwilling, led by the unknowning, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. Semper Paratus!
Ocean Roads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 07:14   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Triple spreader rigs go around the world just fine. Singlehanded races in the Roaring Forties, everything. There's nothing about triple spreaders that weakens a mast. Taller narrower rigs are much faster and higher pointing. Such rigs also tend to be flexible so sails can be flattened or whatever. I don't think the sections are any lighter. I've the very same extrusion on my stubby double spreader Cal 36 as I do on the SC50. 40 feet vs. 60 feet, magic. 50% more height, 50% more spreaders. Running backstays, checkstays, babystays and all make for an exceedingly stiff rig.

A well made rig on a well made hull doesn't need much tuning after set up correctly the first time. But we'd tune our noodley race mast every week on the 11:Meter. Man did it ever bend. A newbie on the boat said "Doesn't the mast bent like that scare you?" when the chute was pulling to masthead all over the place. I said "I don't look at it when it does that." That was double spreaders and jumpers up top. Really skinny aluminum.

I'd climb the bent mast you describe. No problem. They are very strong, even when damaged. I'd jump on the halyard a bit first if there was any doubt.
__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 16:58   #35
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,628
Triple Spreaders

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
Triple spreader rigs go around the world just fine. Singlehanded races in the Roaring Forties, everything. There's nothing about triple spreaders that weakens a mast. Taller narrower rigs are much faster and higher pointing. Such rigs also tend to be flexible so sails can be flattened or whatever. I don't think the sections are any lighter. I've the very same extrusion on my stubby double spreader Cal 36 as I do on the SC50. 40 feet vs. 60 feet, magic. 50% more height, 50% more spreaders. Running backstays, checkstays, babystays and all make for an exceedingly stiff rig.
Daddle is right, triple spreader rigs do go RTW just fine, and almost exclusively on racing boats. On racing boats there's a lot more willingness to put in the extra effort to handle running backs and checkstays in exchange for the extra speed having a lighter boat. The lighter mast allowed by the extra rigging allows for less ballast and hence the lighter boat. There are also advantages to being able to minutely control the shape of the main. The tradeoff is significantly more work in running the boat and a rig that is a lot less tolerant of mistakes such as being late tightening up a backstay on one side or the other during a tack or gybe.

Going from 40' to 60' mast height with the same mast section is not magic, it's a tradeoff. If it were as simple as adding more spreaders we would be seeing 50' boats using the same mast section as a 505 but with 5-7 sets of spreaders instead of 1. That comparison is an absurdity and I know it. The Cal36 to SC50 conversion is not, but there are costs to scaling up the boat without scaling up the mast section.

In addition to the decreace in error tolerance there will also be an increase in fatigue as the mast will move more and because of the camparatively smaller section vs sail area, loads in the mast walls will be higher too. That combined with greater number of parts in the mast system there will be a much higher likelyhood of part failure necessitating greater maintenance effort.

I'm not saying you can't go RTW with a triple spreader rig, I'm saying it will be significantly more work to sail and maintain and you will still have a higher likelyhood of losing or seriously damaging the rig. Replacing the rig is a huge undertaking and would not normally be worth the effort, but if the rig needs replacement anyway, (yet to be determined) consider changing to something more suited to cruising, ie less effort and probably more reliable.
__________________
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
SailboatData
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 17:03   #36
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
please let us know how this turns out. Was the mast okay, ruined the rigger wouldn't climb it. the bookies need to know. smile
__________________
sabray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 21:27   #37
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,461
G'Day again, all,

On the triple spreader issue: not all such rigs are on race boats. Indeed, I seem to remember several larger Beneteaus with triple spreaders, and many of the larger Tayanas come so equipped. Likely are many others that don't come to mind. These are quite different from the bendy masts on racers, and other than being considerably harder to get the initial tune right, are as reliable as those with fewer sets of spreaders.

For the OP, please do let us know how it all turns out!

Cheers,

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 22:40   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ft.myers,fl
Boat: rhodes,seafarer,28
Posts: 137
Don't confuse the rig we're talking about with a B&R rig. The stresses and bending moments are completly different.
__________________
capt.bobfm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 23:12   #39
********* Emeritus
 
SaucySailoress's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,236
If the boat is going at a great price, how much would it cost to replace the mast? Either new, or one off a similar scrap boat?

You might get years of good sailing out of the current mast, but you'll always have that niggling worry about whether or not it's going to snap in half on your next trip; and that will incur the costs of complete new suite of sails, plus whatever medical expenses are involved...
__________________

SaucySailoress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 23:48   #40
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
less then 10k...custom brand new.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 00:03   #41
********* Emeritus
 
SaucySailoress's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
less then 10k...custom brand new.
So, yet again, it boils down to a choice between life savings, or lives!

Seems like a no-brainer to me...
__________________

SaucySailoress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 00:24   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
less then 10k...custom brand new.
Hey Rainy,

That seems awfully inexpensive for a 50 foot triple spreader rig. When we were dismasted on Insatiable I 14 years ago the new spar cost about 18K$ even then. It was about the same length, but only double spreaders. I'd be very interested to know where one can buy things that cheaply these days!

And truly, we haven't yet determined that there is anything very wrong with his current spar... lets let him get it surveyed before we start spending all his money!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Trinity Inlet, Cairns, Qld, Oz
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 00:38   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
That rig is worth $30k new, easy. But they'd just sleeve it. Maybe $2000. Masts are already welded out of multiple pieces anyway.
__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 10:45   #44
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
You guys may be right...

I was just winging it from what I was quoted at 7 to 8K a year ago for my 56' stick... from the guys that made the original masts for Ted Irwin..I have lost Gene Gammons email to me with their name I will have to ask him again.

Still I don't see how it could be more then say 1/2 or twice again as much...say 16 K tops

They are in Florida still that I know.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2010, 17:27   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
I bought a new Ballenger spar and boom for the Cal-36 about 5 years ago. Everything above the chainplates and mast step, 3 winches, double spreader, tapered, anodized, 6 sheaves, about 40 feet: $16,000 self-installed.
__________________

__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mast

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are These Anything to Worry About? ('77 Newport 30) shibbershabber Construction, Maintenance & Refit 14 01-04-2010 01:32
Bent mast. TOM Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 10 10-12-2008 16:27
mast slightly bent bobs Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 9 05-07-2008 21:56
Is this something to worry about? limmer Propellers & Drive Systems 4 07-04-2008 18:08
My first capsize (dinghy sailing, don't worry)... merlin General Sailing Forum 18 26-06-2007 13:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.