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Old 24-03-2012, 09:25   #61
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Re: Why use flat webbing as jacklines instead of rope?

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Amen, you can take those words to rhe bank and cash in. I hate getting screwed by those crooks.....Michael...
I just saw this post. I'll 3rd that. Do people really buy stuff from West Marine? Talk about over priced. Made the mistake of going in there the other day, didn't take long to figure it out though. $550 for a Lazy Jack setup. ropes and pulleys. Can't imagine the markup. Maybe $540. The hard part is installation. sheesh
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Old 24-03-2012, 11:49   #62
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Re: Why use flat webbing as jacklines instead of rope?

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I just saw this post. I'll 3rd that. Do people really buy stuff from West Marine? Talk about over priced. ..........
They DO have a price matching policy and they will match prices with websites like Jamestown Distributors and Defender.

Here is a link to their written policy:
Low Price Guarantee

No, I don't work for West Marine and YES I have price matched several times. I have been in their store and brought up a competitors price on my iPhone and they matched it on the spot. It does have to be the exact brand, etc. but, DUH!!
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Old 24-03-2012, 21:10   #63
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

Price matching with who. ? Defender. ? They have driven every other contender out of business and now offer minimal inventory at top dollar. I was in a West Marine in South Miami recently and was shocked at their minimal stock and over pricing. Sorry but its a prime example of allowing monopolistic business practices in this country. ! !
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Old 24-03-2012, 21:25   #64
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

I get brightly coloured flat webbing from a hiking/climbing store, not only is it more visible the regular line if you want to increase it's strength you can thread another line through it (bungee cord to make retractable harness lines).
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Old 24-03-2012, 21:46   #65
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

West Marine's price matching policy requires that it is the *exact* model that particular West Marine store sells and it is from someone West Marine recognizes as a factory approved dealer ( Circuit City has a similar policy but has electronics made specifically for them usually just an extra letter added to the model#).
What keeps the "Marine Industry" alive is people with more money than time.
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Old 25-03-2012, 01:22   #66
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

The problem with price matching is that the purchase is made from the company that is otherwise charging high prices, while the company offering low prices doesn't benefit. Over the long haul we hurt our discounters, and possibly drive them out of business, while supporting those who would overcharge. It is almost always possible to get items cheaper than at West, so I almost always buy from these discounters to keep them in business. Waiting a few days is a small price to pay.

I have used Defender a lot in the past, and still occasionally do, but find that marine.com (aka sailnet.com) works out cheaper because Defender have high shipping charges. I also use Blue Heron for NMEA 2000 equipment.

The altered model numbers is a popular ruse. Many of the items at Costco have different model numbers; in this case it is to protect other outlets from direct comparisons to Costco's low prices. The degree to which the market is rigged against the consumer is pretty stunning.
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Old 25-03-2012, 01:53   #67
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

Because someone wanted the latest&greatest (something the marketing industry tries to convince us we need) I was able to get a complete Raymarine radar (SL-72 plus) ...it was bought in 2001 but never installed, I bought for only $125...it doesn't have a colour display, but my nav software takes care of that.
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Old 31-03-2012, 09:11   #68
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

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I am trying to understand the logic/advantage of using the webbing that is marketed as jack line versus 3/8 rope. Using rope would be fraction of the cost and would seem to do the same job.

Thanks for the education

Bill
I discarded new Jack lines after one outing. They don't keep you on board. You can end up trolling alongside in mid ocean or wherever. A line from bow to the highest elevation on the mast that doesn't interfere with foresail tacking keeps you on the fore deck and is left in place throughout your cruise . A detachable line from Goose neck to backstay is attached to your backstay only when going forward. It keeps you upright and in action until you clip onto your bow line. Good sailing!
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Old 31-03-2012, 10:15   #69
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

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I discarded new Jack lines after one outing. They don't keep you on board. You can end up trolling alongside in mid ocean or wherever. A line from bow to the highest elevation on the mast that doesn't interfere with foresail tacking keeps you on the fore deck and is left in place throughout your cruise . A detachable line from Goose neck to backstay is attached to your backstay only when going forward. It keeps you upright and in action until you clip onto your bow line. Good sailing!

I agree with this. Your goal has to be to stay IN the boat, not just WITH the boat. I have a friend who was thrown off his boat while setting a reef at the mast when a big blow came up suddenly. He had tethered himself to the mast.

His legs actually went through the lifelines up to his knees, but being tethered to the center of the boat kept him from going overboard in a storm. He had sandals on, an one toe got fairly torn up in the process (closed toes in a storm is a really good idea), but it healed, and he's alive.
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Old 31-03-2012, 12:28   #70
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

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I agree with this. Your goal has to be to stay IN the boat, not just WITH the boat. I have a friend who was thrown off his boat while setting a reef at the mast when a big blow came up suddenly. He had tethered himself to the mast.

His legs actually went through the lifelines up to his knees, but being tethered to the center of the boat kept him from going overboard in a storm. He had sandals on, an one toe got fairly torn up in the process (closed toes in a storm is a really good idea), but it healed, and he's alive.
Yes, there are probably a few single handers never heard from again after a long tow on a tether line attached to conventional jack lines.
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Old 31-03-2012, 12:41   #71
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

Is there a webbing that does not stretch when it gets wet?

I ask this because I had a bad experience with having very taught jacklines when getting underway and then have them loosen up as soon as we had a few splashes on the deck. It made me nervous when having to go forward in some rollicking seas. I think a loose jackline is pretty much worthless for keeping you aboard.
kind regards,
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Old 31-03-2012, 14:03   #72
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Is there a webbing that does not stretch when it gets wet?

I ask this because I had a bad experience with having very taught jacklines when getting underway and then have them loosen up as soon as we had a few splashes on the deck. It made me nervous when having to go forward in some rollicking seas. I think a loose jackline is pretty much worthless for keeping you aboard.
kind regards,
The whole concept of jacklines is flawed like a lot of boat safety. Harnesses and their tethers need to keep u aboard. Jacklines don't

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Old 31-03-2012, 15:10   #73
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

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The whole concept of jacklines is flawed like a lot of boat safety. Harnesses and their tethers need to keep u aboard. Jacklines don't

Dave
Broad statements all risk being silly. This is one such example.

a. Depends on where you run the jacklines. If you run them on the outside of the deck, yup, that's a problem. Run further in, not so much.

b. Depends on whether you think you need to stand tall. You don't.

c. Depends on how long the tether is. 6' is often too long and 3 ' is sometimes too long. No one said they need be long enough for a dance.

d. Gettin someone back on board is not that tough, only most folks never practice. Can you get your dingy on board while moving? Then you can recover a person. If not, learn. Clue: attach second line and cut the tether loose. 90% of tethers are, IMHO, too long, because long is more convenient.

Don't blame the technology for misapplication. However, most sailors should experiment with shortening their tethers; Instead of 3' and 6', try something where you cannot be thrown out of reach of the lower rail. You may have to crouch, but without the tether you would do that anyway.
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Old 31-03-2012, 15:14   #74
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

"I ask this because I had a bad experience with having very taught jacklines when getting underway and then have them loosen up as soon as we had a few splashes on the deck."

The odd answer is that this bad experience was the result of someone not understanding how to run jacklines. When SCUBA tanks had "new" backpacks with nylon straps to attach the tanks, I kept cursing the way my strap loosened up and then the tank started to slip out, every time.

Someone tipped me off, you have to WET THE NYLON before you tighten it down. Nylon expands when wet. Same thing on jackstraps, if they are nylon you have to DUNK THEM BEFORE RIGGING THEM in order to let the nylon stretch out so it can be tied tightly in place. And then, yes, it will get extra tight when or if it dries, so you may want to wet it again before trying to release it.

Its just one of those "batteries not included, some assembly required" deals that the government hasn't gotten around to mandating on printed warning labels. Yet.
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Old 31-03-2012, 15:25   #75
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Re: Why Use Flat Webbing as Jacklines Instead of Rope ?

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Is there a webbing that does not stretch when it gets wet?

I ask this because I had a bad experience with having very taught jacklines when getting underway and then have them loosen up as soon as we had a few splashes on the deck. It made me nervous when having to go forward in some rollicking seas. I think a loose jackline is pretty much worthless for keeping you aboard.
kind regards,
solved it john,
when I put mine on.., I'll drop them in the water for a while and then secure them, the end of the loop at the rear is about a foot short of the pad-eye, I use cord, about 1/4 inch and loop it through about 5 or 6 times and then pull it in.. drop a few half hitches in it and go.. if it losens up after that, its simple to tighten it back up..
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