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Old 04-11-2012, 16:14   #46
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitu View Post
.....Yeah , I'll sail a lot short/singlehanded.

My biggest fear is the lee shore , and it's allways a lee shore here. ....
.
I know a lot of you consider a furler as a safety item , and yes , it saves you a lot of fore-deck duty in moderate to rough weather. However , when the **** hits the fan , and stuff break or jam(as they do) , I would be praying for a hank-on sail.


But please , convince me othervise.
You might want to consider either or both of the following ideas:

1) A simpler, more reliable furler design: Alado, Reefurl, CDI .... where the halyard returns down the foil. Particularly appropriate in the smaller sizes
(and more affordable, generally)

The advantages: The swivel bearings carry minimal loads in the "up and down the stay" direction, in contrast to having to carry the entire forestay tension in a conventional furler

Secondly there is no need for a swivel at the top, and no issues with halyard deflectors to avoid halyard wraps, which can damage and jam the top of a conventional headfoil.

2) Using slugs (like a mainsail*) instead of a boltrope for your furling sails. This means you CAN change sails offshore without needing lots of trained monkeys to stop the sail blowing over the side as it lies on the foredeck.

When I say "Slugs" - these are like slides, except they're made to go up an internal groove designed for a (large-ish) boltrope, rather than an external track.

These are hardly ever seen on headsails, and I have never understood why not, in the case of cruising or shorthanded boats with headfoils or furlers.
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Old 04-11-2012, 16:25   #47
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

One more thing: whatever sails you get, pay attention to the clew height. It's a bad idea to have a clew which is too low, if you want versatility from a roller headsail, and it's a liability to have a clew too low when beating off a lee shore under partially rolled sail (not just the risk of scooping seas, but the more inefficient shape and draft when partially rolled)

A taller mast, and full-hoist sails, will give you better efficiency with less overlap, which is all good in the scenarios you describe. So as you imply, smaller sail areas (and actually less heeling moment even despite the taller rig, within reason)

The disadvantage of a tall rig is that when you're reefed, the topmast serves no useful purpose and the drag (and negative righting moment due to the weight) can be significant. Not to say don't do it, but don't overdo it! (with a tender, tippy hull, particularly)
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Old 04-11-2012, 17:06   #48
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

If I don't go for a taller mast (or go for a marginally taller mast) I'll keep my yankee, the only foresail I got left , and the only good one I had anyway. I just wonder If I'll modify it for the furler , or to go around the furler.

I'll buy the facnor , I get it for a giveaway price , and it is a question about economy. (facnor or no furler/really cheap stuff)

The slugs idea sounds interesting, I'll consider it before modifying/ordering sails.

The hull is narrow, and hence "tippy" , but has about 50% keel weight , so it stops tipping at a certain angle , and gets stiff as hell.

The thing I'm unshure of is if it's worth the money to get a taller mast (mast is cheap , but need new shrouds all over) The rig is really low aspect , 31 foot boat 33 feet of mast.

I'll regret it if I don't do it now , and everybody tells me I need it later. I have to buy two new sails , a new boom and most likely a new headstay anyway so....

.manitu
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Old 04-11-2012, 22:46   #49
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

If the mast is keel stepped, and of generous section, the inexpensive way to get another 5' of air draught is to deck step it.

I've always thought most naval architects overstated the benefits of keel stepping, in terms of the likelihood of breaking the mast. I think they learn the simple formulae from earlier generations, and nobody seems to think to question the buried assumptions.

For one thing, I think the wall sections of the average mast are too thin, and the height and fit of the average collar insufficient, for the bracing at deck level to confer what engineers refer to as "built-in beam" status at that end of the strut. Even if they did, it's not hard to engineer a tabernacle or deck step which is at least as beneficial. The tabernacle reaches further up the bottom panel of the rig, moving the 'built-in end' effect much higher, potentially picking up the gooseneck load directly, which is WAY more beneficial than the old-school thinking of keel step, deck collar.

Sailors are a conservative lot, but (as a crude generalisation) they're not in the same class as people who design cruising yachts for a living. And I think there are generally good reasons for that. No professional would survive for long who was vicariously pushing the envelope, for a clientele more risk averse, and risk exposed, than them. (Whereas it seems to me that Racing sailors are very risk exposed, but hardly at all risk averse, by comparison)

To anyone who finds it difficult to get new ideas considered on this forum, try boatdesign.net!
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:24   #50
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

Sorry , but deck-stepped it is..

My mast collar/gooseneck is less than two inches high, basically just a cup wich the mast is placed in , no fasteners.. this bit worries me a bit , but I'm on the lookout for a new bottom lid for the mast with halyard swivels. (or is it sviwels?)
My mast has two in the front and two in the rear of the top, but the halyards go straight trough and down the outside. I know there is room for the halyards inside , and it would give me two much needed spares. IF I keep the mast..
I think I'll try out a used genoa first , if I can find one that fits (low aspect), but I will not invest too much before I decide on the mast.
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Old 17-03-2013, 14:08   #51
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

So.. It is time for new sails.

I was at the boat show in Oslo yesterday , and asked for quotes on new sails.
I've decided on 130% genoa , loose footed main with two full battens , and a flat assym/reacher/CLASS at 160% or so.

First , I need genoa + main , and have asked for quotes in premium dacron and afordable cruising laminate.

I=10,0m J=3,65m
P=9,6m E=3,8m

The first quote is in , From North sails

North Sails:

Genoa 130%LP, TriRadial cut Radian, 24,5m2, $2430 + VAT

Main, TriRadial cut Radian, 2 reefs, 2 full battens and 2 short ones, 21m2, $3150,- + VAT.

The dollar is up at the moment , so the prices would normally be about 10-15% higher , in dollars.

I'm waiting on quotes from three more norwegian lofts , two swedish, one turkish , and from Island Planet.

.manitu
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