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Old 14-06-2012, 01:46   #31
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

Plus you won't be able to see underneath the sail creating a blind spot, not good in busy waterways.

I still dont' think you need to have all this complication early on. Just keep it simple with a new main and genoa and get out sailing.

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Old 14-06-2012, 02:17   #32
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

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Plus you won't be able to see underneath the sail creating a blind spot, not good in busy waterways.

I still dont' think you need to have all this complication early on. Just keep it simple with a new main and genoa and get out sailing.

Pete
The clew doesn't have to be yankee high to be able to see ahead, just above the lifeline height on tack and clew works well for us. Agree with Pete.
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Old 17-06-2012, 12:53   #33
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Thank's for all input, all of you.

Dont worry' I won't go bananas shopping sails just yet.. I got a old genoa and a smaller yankee/jib plus a decent main. I just want to find the right direction for when I'm ready to buy sails. I'm going to do a complete overhaul of the boat first, and I need decide the solent stay question before modifying the mast, installing the forward bulkhead, and so on.

I do think that a "faux cutter rig" would be as safe to handle as a marconi rig in bad weather.

With downhauls on the foresails and no sails to change, there is no reason to enter the foredeck is it? And no furler to jam.

But a sloop with furler would be a breeze as long as the furler works and I still got a storm sail. Hmmm..

Not easy to decide , maybe I'll see things clearer when I've sailed the boat.. Just a few floors to install and the keel to seal before she hits the water.(knock on wood!)

.manitu
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Old 17-06-2012, 13:30   #34
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

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Wow. All that spleen just because I don't want to visit your facebook page?

It's interesting to hear someone from a discount "loft" appeal to the expertise of local sailmakers to make a point. I've had both Kame Richards and Bill Columbo make sails for various boats, and I honestly doubt they'll confirm that a yankee/staysail combo will "cripple" the OP's upwind performance, as you've claimed. And I have no doubt that either of them will build a good yankee/staysail combo for him if that's what he decides works best for his needs, especially given his low-aspect rig.

On the other hand, it seems almost certain that someone wanting a high-clewed yankee won't be shopping for one at an off-the-rack discount house that specializes in cookie-cutter sails.

Is that the real the problem here? If the OP takes my advice, you'll lose his business?
Bash,

We can build any sail out of any material. We try to see people avoid making mistakes by listening to armchair sailors masquerading as something they are not. As for your accusation of us being an off the rack discounter, you have once again made a patently false assumption. Almost everything we do is 100% custom and we have a sail designer with over 30 years of experience. We have put sails on boats around the world.

Our projects vary from your basic production boats like Catalina to Swans, Oysters, and now an Open 50. We have had boats do quite well in Pac Cup with our spinnakers and many successes in club racing. We are not set up to support the requirements of Gran Prix level sailing so we don't compete in that end of the market. It's already saturated enough as it is.

When I've been in the bay area when Kame is giving one of his presentations, I've made it a point to attend. I grew up down there and as a youngster remember seeing "Powered by Pineapples" stickers. He's someone I respect and admire for his success. While I can't put words in his mouth I suspect he'd agree with the principal points I've outlined and what Australian sailmaker Bull said earlier in the thread. But like any good sailmaker and businessman, I'm sure he'd be happy to build a yankee and staysail combo as would we. At the end of the day, it comes down to serving the customer and all you can do is make a recommendation. It's up to the person writing the check to follow it. We have built a number of sails I didn't recommend but was what the customer decided he or she wanted. In some cases they've come back to me later and asked me to build the originally suggested sails.

I'll be awaiting an apology for your slanderous post.
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Old 17-06-2012, 13:34   #35
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

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With downhauls on the foresails and no sails to change, there is no reason to enter the foredeck is it? And no furler to jam.


.manitu
I've used downhauls but I wouldn't say that would eliminate trips to the foredeck. As for furlers jamming, that is a far rarer occurrence if you have a newer furler. Many boats circumnavigate and report no problems with a headsail furler. The main thing is making sure you have the right furler for the job and that's it's properly installed. Make sure the manufacturer recommendations are complied with.
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Old 17-06-2012, 13:53   #36
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@islandplanet: you have given me your toughts on a sailplan for my boat, and backed it up with factual arguments, bash has not. He seems to think I'm shopping for a yankee, not planning a sailplan for a shorthanded boat, off a lee shore. If I could afford it (and knew were you are located), I would not hesitate to do business with you.

I do know that information on the net is just that.. Information.. You do have to know how to filter it before it's good for anything..

.manitu
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Old 17-06-2012, 14:08   #37
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

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@islandplanet: you have given me your toughts on a sailplan for my boat, and backed it up with factual arguments, bash has not. He seems to think I'm shopping for a yankee, not planning a sailplan for a shorthanded boat, off a lee shore. If I could afford it (and knew were you are located), I would not hesitate to do business with you.

I do know that information on the net is just that.. Information.. You do have to know how to filter it before it's good for anything..

.manitu
Thanks for the kind words Manitu. We're headquartered in Oregon, USA. We work with customers who are DIY'ers who don't mind filling out our rig measurement worksheets and bending on their own sails.
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Old 19-07-2012, 07:07   #38
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

First new sail is defo going to be a new LOOSE FOOTED main..
This rolling reefed ***** is not going to stay on my boat. I thought less controls meant easier trim , no?
Keep in mind that the first sail with the boat was done two weeks after motorcycle accident and I was sailing with a neck brace and a headache, But still.. I struggle to get decent shape on this main with no kick , outhaul or cunningham.

I did not have time for a proper rig adjustment before sailing it from the sellers place, so I'll do so when I return to the boat next week.
This picture is with the big genoa , have'nt tried the smaller, better looking jib/yankee yet.

But anyhow.. I think I'm going for a loose footed main in pentex laminate, one full batten, two reefs, + a new(used) boom with proper reefing lines, kick, and a proper outhaul.

.manitu
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Old 19-07-2012, 09:27   #39
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

Manitu,

Why would you go with Pentex? There are other choices that are similar in cost but far more durable.
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Old 19-07-2012, 12:20   #40
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

Well.. I will ofcourse shop around first , but Some of my sails will be from sailrite kits. And only laminate on their website is pentex.
If the savings don't justify the work amount + the fact that it's still a home sewn sail, I'll go pro on the main and maybe the jib , and sailrite kit's on the rest.

I'll try to do the rig measurements next week when I return to the boat.

.manitu
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Old 21-07-2012, 21:12   #41
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

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Well.. I will ofcourse shop around first , but Some of my sails will be from sailrite kits. And only laminate on their website is pentex.
If the savings don't justify the work amount + the fact that it's still a home sewn sail, I'll go pro on the main and maybe the jib , and sailrite kit's on the rest.

I'll try to do the rig measurements next week when I return to the boat.

.manitu
Sailrite is fantastic for people who want the experience of building a sail.

I chose a Catalina 30 standard rig and took a quick look at their website which shows a crosscut Pentex laminate 150% r/f genoa kit with luff tape, suncover materials, sailbag materials, etc for about $2250.

Considering we've got various load path sails that would start for less than that, unless it's the learning experience you're after....

I'm not knocking Sailrite. They provide a great service and a lot of people enjoy building their own sails. It's just not something I'd advise if you're just looking at dollars and cents. Doing it to learn new skills is the reason to build your own sail. You will also appreciate your sailmaker in ways you could never imagine after building your own from start to finish.
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Old 22-07-2012, 20:18   #42
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

Checked the price for a 150% genoa for a comfort 30 masthead, from one of the "cheap" lofts in norway: 320ft2 sail in pentex cruising laminate costs 3200$.. and that's the sail only. No bag , No options. The Sailrite thingy was about learning a new skill , and be able to repair sails offshore , but mostly about savings.

If I import the sails the gov't wants 25% in sales tax , but still I could save a penny. I need to do measure the rig ASAP to get accurate quotes.

So.. a new main and genoa in cruising laminate, a drifter in nylon , and a downwind sail. Then I should be set for now , cruising the coast.

About the drifter/CLASS/Code1/etc.. What is the difference? all nice words for a lightwind,upwind sail?

.manitu
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Old 22-07-2012, 20:40   #43
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

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First new sail is defo going to be a new LOOSE FOOTED main..
You'll never look back, especially with a laminated sail.
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Old 22-07-2012, 23:30   #44
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

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About the drifter/CLASS/Code1/etc.. What is the difference? all nice words for a lightwind,upwind sail?

.manitu
CLASS was derived from what we referred to as our cruising code zero. We usually build it with a heavy nylon in a full radial design. Design gets tweaked according to what we're designing the sail for. A fin keeled spade ruddered boat with inboard chainplates will get a sail that is designed to handle being used at a tighter angle than a boat with a more traditional underbody. While it's great for close reaching, it can be flown at deep angles pretty easily and drives the boat nicely. Some people view them as a single sail solution for light air sailing. The cruisers looking for more speed may add a broad shouldered assym cruising spinnaker for downwind and broad reaching. We can build it using laminates as well but that tends to be overkill for many cruising applications where the customer is going to roll it up and use working sail once there's any real breeze.
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Old 04-11-2012, 15:55   #45
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Re: Which Sails for My New Project ? 31' Masthead . . .

Hi again folks!

Now , I'm on my way south , and have reached the "sailboat mecca" of scandinavia, The Orust/Tjorn/Goteborg area of Sweden.

I actually managed to loose my old genoa, blown off the pier, the other day..

So.. It is time for new sails! I'm buying a used facnor furler tomorrow , and I'm looking for a new genoa and a new main.

I'm considering a taller mast , lots of masts lying around in this district. I'll most likely need a new headstay anyway, so now is the time , if ever..
I'm thinking: If I get a taller mast , I can reduce the % of the genoa , while keeping the same area or so. The dollar is cheap at the moment , so importing sails could actually be the best option.
My original plan was to get a bit smaller genoa , and compensate with a drifter in nylon for those light wind days. Now that I'll get a furler , I could get away with a bigger genoa , but do I want to?

Lots of q's ..

.manitu
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