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Old 01-11-2008, 18:38   #1
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which sail would you get?

Hi,

My boat only has 2 sails, a main and a 110%. I would like to add a sail to the inventory and I am trying to decide between a Genoa (140% to 150%) and a Cruising Spinnaker.

Most of my sailing is on Tampa bay and the Gulf, so many light wind sailing days mixed in with strong wind from when the fronts blow through.

Eventually I will get both, but can't decide which to get first.

I'm a novice sailor so interested to see what some of you experienced people have to say.

thanks
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Old 01-11-2008, 19:07   #2
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Hey,

I have an asymmetric in a sock and pole out the gen for true down wind. With the cruising shoot I think you get more versatility and it is really easy to deploy.
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Old 01-11-2008, 19:15   #3
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Thanks...... That's what I am leaning towards, getting the asy spinnaker.

Thinking again on that big genoa, maybe a 135% ish and a cruising spinnaker would be a nice all round combination?
any thoughts
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Old 01-11-2008, 20:04   #4
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First off..What boat do you have?
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Old 01-11-2008, 20:06   #5
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yes I guess that would have helped

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Old 01-11-2008, 21:57   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bus Driver View Post
yes I guess that would have helped

1985 Hunter 40
I should have asked another question whats your goal? Cruiser or racer?

If it were me or your an inland cruiser I would go with the 150 first and learn to keep that up in some fresh winds and also how to pole it out wing on wing before spending money on a kite.

A 150 is going to add a lot more drive then the 110 currently gives you and if you have a robust furling system and add some foam to the luff so it furls in a decent shape you can reef it fairly well too...well beyond your curent 110 and still have an efective sail shape.
If your racing..dont have a reefing furler or sail off shore then I would get the asym. first.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:00   #7
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Good day,

Well , I'm not a big fan of roller reefing. I've had two sail makers(local) who didn't speek highly of it either. For short time, now and then sure why not. But I don't want to depend on on that. But of course I have a stay sail too and I don't race. I'm going some where and set the sails and try to enjoy the ride. Not big at figitting all the time with trim.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:46   #8
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I'd go with the 150 first. This is from a guy that's never had anything bigger than a 135 headsail. Correction, I did have a 150 on my first boat but only kept that boat a few years. Since then I've always specified a high clew 135.
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Old 02-11-2008, 11:38   #9
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Get the 150 genoa. It's a more versatile sail that will take you to weather as well as off the wind and is easier to handle should the winds come up unexpectedly. An Asym. is only useful from a close reach to a run and can be a handful in high winds. The asym. will be a better off the wind sail and probably in light air if you stay with fairly .5 or .75 weight fabric. Still, I'd only consider it as a fourth sail in a light wind area.

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Old 02-11-2008, 11:40   #10
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Having sailed Tampa Bay since the early 90's, in my view an asymmetric really isn't particularly useful and certainly not as useful as a light No# 1. Use the No# 1 on a furler from May to October and the 110 through the winter. Unless you're on a passage during the light air daze, the asym just isn't that useful within the Bay. Further, if you're not racing, I suggest a relatively higher cut clew, which improves sail shape when running with a pole and improves one's ability to see.

If you want an asym later, check out Atlantic Sail Traders in Sarasota. They always seem to have a couple of used spinnakers on hand and a used symmetric can be re-cut and seamed to make a pretty decent asym very inexpensively compared to a new sail. (They have a good sail-maker in house.)

FWIW...

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Old 02-11-2008, 16:18   #11
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If you have no spinnaker at all get a spinanker. If you already have a symetric and no roller furling get the 135% genoa. Here's my thinking.

- If you don't have a downwind sail you need one. White sails only downwind is frustrating and slow.
- If you don't have furling, the 150% will be overpowered a lot of the time. A 135% will be able to stay up longer and give a nice performance kick over the 110%
- If you have roller furling get the 150% and furl it when you need to which will be more often than you think.

If it were me I would only have roller furling and I would have a 150% and a storm jib.
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Old 02-11-2008, 20:13   #12
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Here is a bit more info that perhaps I should have specified.

- It's got a Harken roller furling unit on the headstay
- there is an inner forestay (might be taking that one down if I get a 150%, I hear it gets caught up in the stay)
- I have no intentions of racing the boat
- Majority of sailing/cruising will be Tampa Bay and the gulf but not further than the Keys for the time being.

With that additional info, what would be a perfect combination of sails without filling the boat with sailbags.

Would a 110% and 150% have a good windrange?



Hylyte;

you mentioned Atlantic Sail Traders, I spoke with them a few times and they seem top notch. In fact I am trying to find a suitable used genoa from either them or Masthead in St Pete. What sails do you have on your boat and which to you use most?

So the Genoa might come first if I can find one and for the assymetrical, I am going to try one of those sailrite kits as I own a LZ1. If I can't find a used genoa, might try to build one of them too.



I've got so many questions....... thanks for taking the time to reply everyone!!
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Old 02-11-2008, 22:01   #13
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I would Definitely get the 150 then and have foam added to the luff for proper sail shape through a greater range.

I would also keep the inter stay and get a storm stay sail and make it removable...there for curing your feed through problum as you can stow it using a spreader horn and a dedicated "D" ring on deck or along the toe rail somewhere.

The reason for this is two fold...Most 150's are not going to be designed for winds greater then 30 and secondly... even a furled up sail risks a fruler line parting and that will lead to unpleasantness to say the least when things pipe up... if one were to get spooled out on you in gale conditions think broach or worse here...so that interstay with a hank on can come in real handy caught out in a blow...or for that matter going out in one on purpose......welcome to the club.

Below is what I'm talking about on the removable stay sail anchor.

PS: I second the versatility of a high clew 135..my boat came from the Bay area and my 135 is built brick house stout...we had it out in 47 Knt gusts a couple weeks ago with just a 100 Square foot patch of it up I did not worry about the sail itself at all ...it was the furller line that made me a little nervous...my new removable inter stay set up with hank on storm stay sail like I just described will be just the ticket in thoes conditions...but my 135 is going to be built way to heavy for light airs and thats why I'm suggesting the lighter 150 with foam for you.
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Old 03-11-2008, 07:09   #14
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BusDriver--

We have a pretty elaborate suite of sails from a heavy number 4 (90%) up to a medium 155% with a foam luff together with a couple of spinnakers including a asym and symmetric (both in ATN snuffers).

The sail I like the best, and use the most, is a medium 135 we had made by Doug Fisher at Ullman Sails in Sarasota a few years ago. This does not have a foam luff but still sets pretty well with a couple of rolls in it because of the way the Harken furler works (and so long as one remembers to move the sheet leads forward). A close friend of ours with a sister-ship to HyLyte (see Ocean Angel ) has cruised his boat between Tampa and Guatemala (he's on the Rio now) and has relied on a 125, only a tad smaller than our 135, almost exclusively.

We also have a beautiful asym that Doug Fisher built as well (with a stars'n stripes color scheme designed by my daughter) but it's too troublesome to use within the confines of the Bay unless one is making a long reach (up to, say, Davis Island YC from the Skyway Bridge). It is very good in the Gulf, however, once you get a few miles off-shore, and have the wind from about 70* to 160*, say for example between the southwest channel and the Keys. We have also used the symmetric to fairly good advantage in light air (<10 knts) although our pole is 17' long (and heavy) so if we set that, I usually use an ATN Tacker connected to the headstay and gybe between 150+/-. (Gybing down-wind is faster than running anyway.)

The 155 has it's merits but it is fairly heavy (simply because of size) and it's low cut, which causes it to foul on the life-lines off the wind, which screws up the set. Hard on the wind, a 155 also adds a lot of heeling force that's disproportionate to its drive (and my wife hates heeling beyond about 15*). OTOH, it's a killer sheeted to the spreaders up-wind when we're racing.

Regarding tacking a large overlapping head sail with your inner stay, just add a light tack line (I use the same line we use for controlling the height of the tack on the asym.). In our case, this is a 3/8" line that runs from a stopper on the coach-roof up to a medium snatch-block at the base of the head stay and then back to the clew of the head sail. When you're ready to tack, cast off your working sheet, haul in on the tack line until the clew is forward of the inner stay, where the wind will blow the sail through the slot between the stays as you turn, then release the tack line and haul in on the new working sheet. You're not racing so you can take your time, the lazy tack line has no effect on the trim of your sail and it's a lot less costly than a Hyfield Lever or other device to release the inner stay (although there is merit to that solution as well).

As far as storm sails, we have a third reef in our Main (tho I only rig it when we're going off-shore) and a storm jib with an ATN sleeve--vis'a'vis a Gale Sail. It works well but its somewhat of a pain in the rump to set up and this year we'll likely replace the sleeve with a 3/8" spectra luff rope so we can set the sail free-flying with a spare jib halyard. (All of our halyards are T-900 so we can load them up pretty well without worry and that way I'm not concerned about the head stay.) For the most part, however, on the west coast of Florida one is generally more concerned about too little wind rather than too much.

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte
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Old 03-11-2008, 07:12   #15
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A question? With a 150 Genoa, you do not risk being overpowered?

As an answer to your question If you want excitement, go with a spinnaker Else go with a bigger Genoa.
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