Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-06-2010, 16:31   #1
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
Which Material for a New Mainsail for a LeisureFurl System

Hi folks -

Well after 20,000 miles and 9 years – 6 actively cruising – Raptor Dance’s mainsail gave up the ghost. It was a Quantum Spectra Laminate and the UV and constant use cruising in the tropics took it’s toll.

Raptor Dance is a Valiant 50 - P: 56.70 FT E: 18.00 FT

So the question is – what next?

As many of you know, we have a LeisureFurl in boom furling system and can’t use a fat cloth like a heavy Dacron – it won’t fit in the boom.

Right now we’re looking at quotes from Quantum for a main made of their Hydra Net Tri-Radial cloth and a quote from UK-Halsey for their Cruising Carbon Tape Drive.

I’m wondering what you all think – do any of you have experience with either? Is there another option we should consider? We need someone with a good reputation, reliable, reasonably priced and can get us a new main pretty quick.

Note – the North Sails loft didn’t return our inquiry.

We will be here at the California Yacht Club in Marina del Rey CA (not a horrible place to be stuck) until we get our new main.

Regards,
Bill Finkelstein
Raptor Dance
Valiant 50 #107
__________________

__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 17:49   #2
Registered User
 
speciald@ocens.'s Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat - Carib, Chesapeake
Boat: 58 Taswell AS
Posts: 1,139
I would stay away from taape drive sails for a cruising boat. I had two tape drives on my race boat but they failed prematurely. Stay with traditional construction. Sales would be more easily repaired out of country if they have traditional construction and fabrics. Are you sure that a Dacron sail won't fit the Leisure Furl; that's what I have on my boat.
__________________

__________________
speciald@ocens. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 18:12   #3
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
Yes, a Dacron sail would have to be a lighter weight than we'd like to fit.

The Tape Drives that failed for you were from which maker? And were they Racing or Cruising weight? Racing sails are not built as rugged as cruising sails.

The local cruisers here in So. Cal and Mexico love theirs - but they are the UK-Halsey technology and not the North Sails technology.
__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 19:37   #4
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
Just curious -- was there something about the Quantum Spectra that you didn't like? Sounds like you got your money's worth from it. If it worked well with the LeisureFurl, then why change?

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 20:09   #5
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
The Spectra worked fine shape wise, strength and longevity. The biggest problem was that after a few years mildew took up residence around the stitching, spread between the laminations and it got "ugly". Purely cosmetic, but it wasn't esthetically pleasing! It was also a bit pricier than newer fabrics that supposedly achieve equivalent performance without the mildew problem.
__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 20:22   #6
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
Some more info:

Here is the link to the website of the fabric manufacturer Quantum proposes: Hydra Net® - Sailcloth Technology by DIMENSION-POLYANT - Sailcloth and laminates for high performance sailing and polyestersailcloth for surf

and

Here is the link to the spec sheet for the specific fabric that Quantum specified: http://dimension-polyant.com/en/pdf/...t_radial_E.pdf
__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 20:28   #7
Moderator
 
Paul Elliott's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,875
Images: 4
Bill,
I think you're looking for something a little higher-end than this, but on VALIS (Pacific Seacraft 44) we have a leisurefurl, and have a Hood Vektran mainsail. It's been to Hawaii and back twice, plus some pretty windy coastal (San Francisco) sailing, and it seems to be holding its shape well. Vektran is a woven dacron cloth with some vectran threads mixed into the weave. For a given strength is is definitely lighter than a pure dacron. It's nothing like a high-tech laminate, but it is rugged and forgiving.

Good luck,
Paul
__________________
Paul Elliott, S/V VALIS - Pacific Seacraft 44 #16 - Friday Harbor, WA
www.sailvalis.com
Paul Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 20:43   #8
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
Hi Paul - Actually the Hydra Net Radial fabric is Dyneema threads woven into Dacron, not a laminate as I first thought.
__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 21:07   #9
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,969
I think the hydra-net is an updated (and better) woven cloth than the Vektran. I had a vektran main and it stretched. Not as bad as dacron but a whole lot more than a laminate sail. I'm not sure the hydra-net is thin enough to meet your boom requirements.

In the laminate sails you might look at the Doyle "Cruising Stratis". It is supposed to have a whole lot of anti-mildew treatment. I believe all of the sailmakers are using better anti-mildew treatments than when your current sails were built.

You might also consider having the whole new sail treated with McLube SailKote. This really helps to seal the sail from moisture.

Carl
__________________
CarlF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 21:51   #10
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
Hi Carl - The Doyle looks interesting, but there's no loft near here in Marina del Rey in Southern CA. We're stuck here until we get a new sail and we'd like to get moving again. So right now it's pretty much between Quantum and UK-Halsey - both can get us a new sail in (they say) 3 to 4 weeks. Both have attractive proposals with technology that we would probably also choose if we had more time.
__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 22:02   #11
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,969
Then I would tell them each of the that you're going with whoever has the best "no mildew" promise. It's not rocket science. Maybe they can put on an extra layer of treated taffeta or something.

Carl
__________________
CarlF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2010, 22:07   #12
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
Yes, Carl - Well the Hydra Net material is not a laminate. It's Dacron woven with Dyneema - so it should inherently be more mildew resistant than the Tape Drive. But what about longevity, cost effectiveness, shape maintenance and failure modes (catastrophic or repairable)? Those are interesting questions that I'm looking for facts on. Too much marketing hype to wade through.
__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2010, 18:25   #13
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the conversation.

We signed up and put a deposit down today for a new main from Quantum in Pt. Richmond, CA.

Details: P: 52.35 FT E: 16.90 FT
SAIL AREA 526.4 FT²
Computer designed and cut tri-radial construction using Dimension Hydra Net 433
Radial (75%), Dimension Hydra Net 393 Radial (25%) with Handsewn luff and foot hardware, leech cord with a cleat, telltales, sail ties, sail bag, fitted to our Leisure Furl, with (6) Batten Pockets and Battens.

Don Teakell from Pt. Richmond will come down to verify all measurements before
construction and return to fit and go on a sea trial with us. We are in Marina del Rey right now so that's about a 400 mile trek for him (he'll fly, OAK to LAX).

Delivery is promised in 3 to 4 weeks.

Regards,
Bill
__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2010, 18:41   #14
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorDance View Post
Delivery is promised in 3 to 4 weeks.
None too soon, Bill. I spent a month once at the California Yacht Club, and it got harder and harder to leave with every passing day. Be especially wary of the seafood buffet on Friday nights, if they still have it. Half the transient yachties who dine there ask for a liveaboard application after the second course.

A six-batten main? My oh my.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2010, 18:57   #15
Registered User
 
RaptorDance's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: On Board - Currently - Heading back to SF Bay from Mexico.
Boat: Valiant 50 - Raptor Dance
Posts: 196
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to RaptorDance
Yes, they still have the outstanding Sea Food Buffet on Friday nights. We've been members of Cal since 1987 (non-resident since 1992) and it's just as good as ever!

Yes, and with the Leisure Furl, each batten is a reef point! We've never been beyond the 3rd Reef (and don't want to be...), but it's nice to have, just in case.
__________________

__________________
SV Raptor Dance - Valiant 50 #107
Bill Finkelstein & Mary Mack
http://raptordance.com
RaptorDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mainsail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Exhaust System Diagram (New System) SkiprJohn Engines and Propulsion Systems 19 28-08-2014 05:23
New Mainsail ? nigheandonn Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 26 05-04-2010 05:55
Mainsail Creases privileged Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 26 18-02-2010 22:05
In-boom mainsail reefing furling system Erikte Multihull Sailboats 36 13-08-2008 19:58
mainsail harumph1 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 22 23-01-2008 12:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.