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Old 22-11-2015, 10:34   #1
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Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

Guys,
I'm looking at a boat design (to buy for cruising) which is a bit on the light side when it comes to sail area. And thus, it'd be nice to find a 60' 65' mast tube to rebuild a (larger) sail plan around. IE; one with more sail area.

The boat being a 40'er, designed for a Bermudan rig. Having a high righting moment, & weighing in the 10T range. And is designed for a keel stepped spar. - Think older Swan. Like mid '70's.

Obviously, it's adding all of the "accessories" (spreaders, tangs w. crossbolts, masthead, sheaves, etc.) which is the expensive part of building a rig. Much of the installation of which I can do myself, but for the welding. So finding a tube on the cheap would be a real perk.

At the moment, I can't say that I have the required Ixx, & Iyy values. But figure to soon.

Also, I'd would prefer to set it up as a double spreader rig, with option for a cutter stay with runners, or a Solent stay. That & not needing a babystay would be nice (yeah, I know...). As would having a tube that's flexible enough to use a (hydraulic) backstay adjuster.
Ah, & being able to run internal halyards is essential. That, or modifying the tube so that I can is anyway.

Also, any; references on, links to, or videos about building a wood/carbon fiber tube that'll let me run internal halyards would be appreciated as well. And in this instance, I'm not referring to a wing spar, as found on multihulls.
Though if you know of one...

Thanks, & if I left out any key bits, pleas just ask.

PS: Cutting down an overlength tube's definitely an option, if it "fits" otherwise. That, & a tube with spreaders placed appropriately would be primo!
Plus, so long as I'm dreaming, a carbon fiber tube's an option too, if it doesn't cost more than a new main & jib, together .
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Old 22-11-2015, 10:56   #2
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

A while back when I was looking at buying a boat that had an early Hood in-mast furling rig that I would have wanted to replace I reached out to Hall Spars. They were really nice and super helpful and happened to have a rig that would have worked for me that they were replacing with a carbon one. Usually they just cut them up and scrap them. Might be worth a call, might get lucky.
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Old 22-11-2015, 13:25   #3
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

You won't likely have sufficient space for internal halyards, but there are some lovely ways of building a light weight spruce mast that you might really like if you don't find the appropriate carbon fiber spar for your purposes. The length of mast sounds a little long for the displacement of the (already owned?) vessel--is that even close to the original mast height for the hull form?
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Old 22-11-2015, 13:50   #4
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

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Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
You won't likely have sufficient space for internal halyards, but there are some lovely ways of building a light weight spruce mast that you might really like if you don't find the appropriate carbon fiber spar for your purposes. The length of mast sounds a little long for the displacement of the (already owned?) vessel--is that even close to the original mast height for the hull form?
The two, stock, mast tubes for the design in question are 58', & 62', respectively. Albeit 6'+ of that is distance from the keel step, up to the deck. So the J measurement's are 51', & 54' on them.
Thus, another few feet of J & E would be Really helpful, & still allow one to sneak under bridges on the ICW. Albeit perhaps with you VHF antenna hitting in a spot or two.
And by modern standards, for a boat that length, those aren't tall masts. As on current racers, it's common to see masts starting at 133% - 140% of the boat length & up.

Also, for me carbon's more of a fantasy, & a semi PITA. As one has to be REAL careful with them when adding fastners of any kind; how many, what size, & where. Let alone say, exit holes for halyards. Or doing something completely loco, like bolting on tangs & shroud attachments which weren't planned for as part of the spar's initial build.

That, & a lightning hit destroys'em. As carbon fiber is very conductive, while resin isn't, necessarily. It may not be visible, the destruction I mean. And they might be okay, but it's almost common practice to write them off after a strike, as I understand things.
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Old 22-11-2015, 19:21   #5
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

hum..well so no carbon fiber for you...

If you do go with wood, and if you do have enough space inside the mast for wires and halyards both, you'll be able to use a dipole antenna for your VHF INSIDE the wood mast. That's where our VHF antenna is-- inside the foremast and it does a great job of both transmit and receive over long distance. With such a traditional boat as ours, hiding the antenna inside was a great thing. I'm happy with halyards outside the mast and love that antenna inside.
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Old 22-11-2015, 19:31   #6
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

Pity you don't want carbon cos I know of a cheap fully fitted carbon rig going cheap.


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Old 22-11-2015, 19:47   #7
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

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Pity you don't want carbon cos I know of a cheap fully fitted carbon rig going cheap.


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Is it in the USA?
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Old 22-11-2015, 19:52   #8
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

Yup


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Old 22-11-2015, 20:04   #9
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

Or maybe....


Making a Mast | Cruising World

I've helped with a project like this one. Once you have the mast, the rest of the details fall in line pretty well.
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Old 23-11-2015, 11:07   #10
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

Don't write off carbon because of lightning risk. We added a masthead static charge dissipator brush and grounding cable inside the carbon mast tied to the keel of our J42. The Nitronic rod rigging which is also grounded actually forms a bit of a Faraday net around the spar. Lightning protection is rife with folklore.

Cheers
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Old 23-11-2015, 14:29   #11
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

I have an 18.6m Carbon fibre mast for sale. 61ft so fits your range nicely. It has double spreaders and is fully rigged with Dyform wires. It was off a performance multihull and is set up for fractional rigged jib and spinnakers. Internal halyards etc. the mast was rotating but could be installed as a fixed rig easily enough.

The two potential drawbacks?
It is broken - the break is 1.5m from the base so about 750mm from the gooseneck. Note that the breakage was caused by the fully rigged mast hitting the water at speed, the failure was due to a cap shroud fitting so the mast itself is plenty strong enough. With the break being where it is it would be a relatively straight forward fix for anyone comfortable with working with carbon, extra stiffness in that area would not be an issue.

Second potential drawback - it is in Australia.

Pm me though if you want any more details. I am asking A$10,000.
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Old 23-11-2015, 15:09   #12
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

Good info on carbon masts from a guy who has designed a bunch of them:
Free Standing Masts

It is definitely possible to build your own carbon mast. But you really need to pay attention to the details. As I'm sure you know, carbon does not accommodate errors well.

Not sure where you are, but the cheapest source for new mast extrusions I've found is Lefiell, in Southern California: Missile
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Old 23-11-2015, 17:41   #13
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

E-Bay has a lot of aluminum mast.
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Old 23-11-2015, 19:16   #14
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Guys,
I'm looking at a boat design (to buy for cruising) which is a bit on the light side when it comes to sail area. And thus, it'd be nice to find a 60' 65' mast tube to rebuild a (larger) sail plan around. IE; one with more sail area.

.
Our wintering marina is Torresen in Muskegon Michigan. Many salvaged spars on the rack. Other marinas may as well.
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Old 23-11-2015, 22:58   #15
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Re: Where to find an inexpensive 60'-65' Mast Tube

Guys,
Thanks for all of the great ideas & input. I'm surprised at the number of ideas & candidates. Pleasantly so.

That said, if you know of a spar/have one which might fit; then some of the "hard" questions I'll be asking are below. They're just designed to figure out if it'll fit the boat well, & how much of what I desire & need in a tube that they have.
My apoligies that they're not in perhaps, a more oranized order... but the hour has my eyelids (& thinker) feeling a bit heavy
And they're primarily aimed at evaluating "pre-loved" spars.

- What it came off of, & or Ixx + Iyy spec's. That, or the previous boat's RM30.
- What type of rigging it's setup for, especially the end connections & spreader tips
- If rod; sizes, continuous or discontinuous
Ditto if it's rigged for wire.
- It's designed staying base size
- Spreader; lengths, material, mast attachment design, tip fittings, root attachment design
- Masthead configuration, especially whether she's fractional, or masthead rigged
- I, J, P, & E which it's designed for
- Staysail Stay, or Solent Stay attachments & halyards?
- Sheave/halyard configuration, & number, including topping lift(s) for Spinnaker pole(s)
- Runners? Checks?
- Babystay?
- Spinnaker pole track?
- Reaching Strut, & or fittings for same
- Lighting setup... With or without wires for same?
- Internal conduit for electrical wiring or no?
- Gooseneck setup, & design
- Vang setup
- Boom? And if so, how many sheaves in the end
- Internal Hydraulic Plumbing?
- Amount of designed prebend
- Finish (as in paint or clear coat on the tube)
- Mainsail track type. IE; Bolt rope groove, slugs, or "High End System", like Harken, Antal, Tides, etc.
- Any internal sleeving or stiffening of the lower section of the tube
- Last servicing of components, such as; Spreader Bars, Sheaves, Lighting, Tangs & Crossbolts
- Price?
- Location?

Plus any other relevant data which you can think up to help to ascertain a mast's viability, & general condition.

Thanks again!


PS: I'll send out PM's on the current candidates as time allows, due to my sked vs. the approaching Holiday. And everyone have a Great Thanksgiving!
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