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Old 03-07-2016, 08:07   #1
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When to douse a .5oz chute?

We have what I believe is a .5oz chute. We bought it used from Bacon Sails, who called it .75oz but it has ".5 AP RUN" stencilled on it which makes me believe it is actually .5oz. Anyway, we have often flown it in 20 knots of wind, at which point the boat is just beginning to really pick up her skirts. My concern is that I am going to blow up this nice sail by flying it in anything but light winds. Any thoughts?
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:30   #2
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

I'm not sure exactly what "picks up her skirts" means in terms of real world numbers. But realistically, 20kts Apparent is max. on a 1/2oz kite (if not a touch beyond). So that if you goof, even when taking it down, there's a good chance of turning it into confetti. Particularly if it's old. As UV eats kites pretty quickly, even more so with lighter ones. For example, when boats race from California to Hawaii, the cliche is to set the kite on day 3, & take it down when you get there. By which time it's toast, & gets binned.
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:50   #3
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
We have what I believe is a .5oz chute. We bought it used from Bacon Sails, who called it .75oz but it has ".5 AP RUN" stencilled on it which makes me believe it is actually .5oz. Anyway, we have often flown it in 20 knots of wind, at which point the boat is just beginning to really pick up her skirts. My concern is that I am going to blow up this nice sail by flying it in anything but light winds. Any thoughts?
I'm going to assume your 2O knots of wind was true wind and for your general use I would not exceed that for cruising unless you like writing cheques.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:05   #4
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

Definitely not in 20 knots. I assume that was 20 knots downwind so probably more like 10 true wind?
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:15   #5
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

Your boat will not accelerate to allow for the gusts and so you want to douse it before you blow it.

I do not know how big the sail is otherwise. A small kite can be up for longer. A big one could possibly capsize the boat before it blows up.

How big is the sail and how fast do you go? (Assuming a run or else the broadest reach only).

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Old 03-07-2016, 11:06   #6
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

1/2 ounce kite? 12 knots apparent MAX. Maybe less. I can't see your profile to see your boat. And stuff has changed since I was racing but 20 knots is 1 ounce territory for any decent size boat.
And how easy is it to get a gust from 12 to 20?
And how much wallet do you have?



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Old 03-07-2016, 13:09   #7
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

Yep. Pretty much the same general feeling maybe 15kts app the top limit with a new sail in a quality nylon.

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Old 03-07-2016, 20:03   #8
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

If ".5 AP RUN" means it's 1/2 oz., I'd take it down at 10-12 apparent. But, I'm not positive what that phrase means. Also, a 46' custom cat could be heavy or lighter, so I'm thinking your pushing it. Maybe, a PM to Totem, who's a sailmaker, could get you the translation of that lettering. I suppose the AP could mean apparent wind, and the RUN, that it's a running 'chute, not a reaching one. Which sort of leaves the .5 as 1/2 oz., but I really DON'T know.

Good luck with it.

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Old 04-07-2016, 01:20   #9
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

AP RUN means All Purpose Runner.
Is it stenciled on the sail or the bag? Quite often bags get swapped.
When brand new they can take some abuse but a old 0.5oz is unsafe to use in 20 knots on a big cat like yours. Can you take it back and get a refund since they told you it was 0.75oz

BTW Ann I work with Jamie SY Totem
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:47   #10
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

Yes.

AP may satnd for 'all purpose' (e.g. in older Doyle's nomenclature and some other makers branded is in a similar / same manner.)

Asymmetric Racing Spinnakers | Doyle Sailmakers

0.5 oz suggests, depending on shape, either a light air reacher or a mid air runner.

+/- without seeing the sail

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Old 04-07-2016, 07:48   #11
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

Thanks for all the replies. DDW with the spinnaker up we usually do 1/2 TWS, so in 20 knots we usually have 10 knots AWS. When it starts gusting to 22 knots we douse it, mainly because we don't want to deal with a large (58' luff) sail in those conditions. Never having raced, I don't have a lot of experience with spinnakers and my concern is that by leaving it up in 18-20 I am exceeding what the sail was built for. We really like the sail and seem to use it more than the working sails, so I think in the future we will be a little more carefull with it and maybe set 16 knots TWS as our limit.
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:56   #12
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. DDW with the spinnaker up we usually do 1/2 TWS, so in 20 knots we usually have 10 knots AWS. When it starts gusting to 22 knots we douse it, mainly because we don't want to deal with a large (58' luff) sail in those conditions. Never having raced, I don't have a lot of experience with spinnakers and my concern is that by leaving it up in 18-20 I am exceeding what the sail was built for. We really like the sail and seem to use it more than the working sails, so I think in the future we will be a little more carefull with it and maybe set 16 knots TWS as our limit.
That's a good "running back from the islands" sail in that 10 - 15 knots after "windy lane" that keeps dropping as you approach SB I'd say. Keep using it in 15 kts (or more) and it will be exceeding its limit.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:20   #13
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

One problem with Cats isthey load up their rigs and sails so much. Look at the typical rig size and sail weight on cats. Done a bunch of racing and been on several mono hulls when blowing out kites. What happens most times, you get knocked down the sail starts flogging and then fills with a pop. A cat isn't going to get knocked down, so they get more steady loading and less flogging. Racing we were taking down the 1/2oz at 12kts apparent.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:27   #14
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Definitely not in 20 knots. I assume that was 20 knots downwind so probably more like 10 true wind?
After wrecking a Code Zero and a cruising chute in a race, we dug out an assy kite of 0.5 oz weight from the depths of a locker. Judging by the colour scheme, it hadn't seen open air since the late '70s. We flew it like a cruising chute (poleless) at night because we had no choice, but the watchstanders had instructions to douse it at 11 knots or more, because of the danger of straining it.

I've seen 0.75 oz chutes part in a destructive fashion at 22 knots apparent; I would imagine 12-14 is your limit and that you've been lucky. I douse my 0.75 oz. cruising chute at 12 knots, because I'm not racing and a No. 2 does the trick if the wind is going up, but that's me. Not racing.
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:12   #15
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Re: When to douse a .5oz chute?

O.K.. The answer depends on which wind we are talking about - Apparent or Actual. We've had our .5 oz. asymetrical chute up in a 20 knot actual wind heading just off directly downwind doing 13-14 knots over the ground. which means our apparent wind was only 6-7 knots - piece of cake. The limiting factor in this case was not the windspeed, but the boat speed. Anything more than 15-16 knots over the water would have increased the danger of burying one of the bows and pitchpoling. This boat speed would have happened at about 25-27 knots actual wind speed (10-12 knots apparent wind speed). The sea state also comes into the equation as the wave height would pick up with the increase in actual wind speed, also increasing the chance of burying one of the bows.
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