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Old 09-10-2009, 18:29   #16
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when I first start to think about it. don't use wind speed because of variable sea state and/or apparent wind direction.
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Old 09-10-2009, 18:33   #17
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Sabray
If you look at the sailplan for the Petersons- it has a 100% Genny. I have a 100% and a 150% (which can give the same weather helm you talk about) With the smaller sail up - very balanced even up to 35kn (apparent)

We reef when the analogue 'Reefing detector alarm' goes off aka Brenda, ships cook, p/t admiral and my better half, lets it be known in a nice polite way that she wishes me to reef the main or reduce the genny. Its a great system - can be heard above any howling wind or sound system. (I am in big trouble now!)
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Old 09-10-2009, 18:46   #18
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I always thought that there were three steps to this as the wind increases. Back stay tensioner tightened (bends the mast and spills air out of the top of the main), drop the main down the traveller (bit by bit) and if weather helm is still there and the wind speed is rising then reef. I would also change down to a no 2 genoa if sailing with a number 1. My boat (30 ft) definitely performs better under this sail set. Remember that if you are overpowered you are going to leeward a lot faster than in lower velocity winds and this might make it harder to attain a particular objective without an additional two (or more) tacks.
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Old 09-10-2009, 18:51   #19
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Don, I think boat specific Peterson they very in design some have shortened the foot of the main others have taller rigs. Also as I am learning tuning the rig has effect. What I said though is at 20 I'm thinking. So solo if intuition and forcasts are this is going to blow I'll pull back 20 25 range again alot of variables. Which was more my point.
I know also that you have many more years experience and miles sailing petersons. I've done 35 with gusts to 45 solo and well it was a blast it was tiring I reefed. Wish I had done so sooner as it was my experience on mine.
Good to hear from you
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Old 09-10-2009, 19:14   #20
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first reef in at 18 knots,
So at what wind speed do others put their first and second reefs in?
You are spot on. We must know what our boat use is. If you take it out on Saturdays for the day then you can rev the boat up more. If you are doing, like us, 17,0000nms in 18 months on old sails then you must operate differently or be prepared to pay for new sails sooner.

Our first reef Close hauled: about 18 kts sustained.

Second reef: 25 kts

Off the wind: when the boat speed hits 8 kts sustained we slow down. - Hull speed 8 1/2 kts


Why so soon for a second reef? Because we have all the power we need and we are crusing so time is not of the essance.

Before a 3rd reef we would hove to.

We had a thread the other day when people were saying they were crusing on $1,000 per month or less. If a set of sails costs $5k then we can't afford to rip them in the whole circumnavigation (or crusies whatever).



Reef early to save money



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Old 09-10-2009, 19:49   #21
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Heel creates asymmetrical waterlines and this is slowing you down. Weather helm means you are dragging your rudder and it is acting like a break.

If you reef you can heel less - keep boat speed up, reduce weather helm - less strain on the steering and less resistance - keeps boat speed up.

This all depends on the boat, it's weight, sail plan and so forth. I reef up wind at about 18 true sustained, at 28 true I need a second reef. Off the wind I can carry more canvas at higher wind speeds. Gybing can be hairy to say the least in strong winds.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:39   #22
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when I first start to think about it. don't use wind speed because of variable sea state and/or apparent wind direction.
EXACTLY !!!
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Old 10-10-2009, 14:06   #23
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Quote:
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...We had a thread the other day when people were saying they were crusing on $1,000 per month or less. If a set of sails costs $5k then we can't afford to rip them in the whole circumnavigation (or crusies whatever).
...
Well, would be nice, but you rip them (or don't) pretty regardless of what you can / can't afford.

A ripped sail is 99% of the time repairable at a fraction of a new sail's cost.

Reefing too early can have its drawbacks too - 1) every time we reef, we put uneven strains on the sails, we crimp it, etc., 2) the boat will be less steady and so the chafe will be more pronounced.

Reef to balance, balance when to reef.

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Old 10-10-2009, 16:12   #24
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Reef great day on the Chesapeake.I'm guessing steady winds at 20to 25. Anyone with data. My windspeed thing is fritzed. Full main and 135 genny. 7 knots All is well pointing little weather helm winds have some gusts but this feals stable down wind no problem . Broad reach weather helm wind picked up a few knts I reefed the main to the first 7knots no loss of speed weather helm eased not as exciting but I'm not beating the boat. Down wind don't need that reef but I'll soon be anchoring on the wye river 5.5 knots and life is good. So today I reefed because there was no gain haveng up to much canvas. Damn I love sailing
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Old 10-10-2009, 16:50   #25
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I don't about Chespeake. But up north of Boston today we had mostly 20-27 knots. Checking my wind speed afterwards we got a 32 gust. But I think there was more as I saw 28 knots apparent once while running. Funny that I started this thread and still didn't reef right off the bat. But we took a good knock over 30 seconds after putting up the main that slapped some sense into us. I was going to put the first reef in, but my wife said the second, so of course we put in the second. Sailed around with rolled genny and double reefed main, traveler down and still at 15-25 degress heel at almost hull speed and fairly light wheel. Overall a great sail day!! The only clue that the wind was up was really the sound and the wind burn on my face (not counting catching the mooring later).
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Old 10-10-2009, 17:07   #26
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I reef at about 18 knots (when I have a 150% Genoa on), then at about 22k I roll in the Genoa about two or three turns, then at higher comes the 2nd reef. Mizzen stays up. If the water is thin and i have to pull the board up, I reef earlier to reduce heel.
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Old 22-10-2009, 20:39   #27
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Cutter rig:

15 I start looking around.
20+ gusts I check the barometer again, tidy up the lines, get my game face on.
-- somewhere in here i'll furl the yankee and just have the staysail out.
20+ sustained for even a minute or 23+ gusts, reef.
30+ of anything and both go in.
40+ reef the staysail, triple main.
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Old 22-10-2009, 21:18   #28
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I reef at two times.

1. When I think about.
2. At or around 5 pm.

When I am sailing offshore, I always put a single or double reef in the mainsail before sunset. That way I don't have to send anyone forward to make the reef in the dark if the wind pipes up. I will carry a full headsail because I can easily roll it up in the dark. This isn't the most efficient way to sail a yacht, but we still get our 150 miles a day.
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Old 22-10-2009, 21:28   #29
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Putting a reef in at night is a really good idea. I forgot about that!
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Old 23-10-2009, 01:34   #30
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I disagree with putting a reef in at sunset. It makes the night watch boring. Like driving on the 110kmph motorway at 60kms. Get bored, go to sleep and goodnight world...

Sailing at night we try to make it exactly the same as in the day... for a start we don't use decklights or torches for sail setting trying to use night vision. We are comptetative about who does more miles per watch and it doesnt matter if its midnight or midday. We tuck in and shake out reefs according to wind etc.

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