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Old 10-06-2015, 23:44   #1
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What's wrong with this jib?

This may be nothing but I just had a new main and jib made with Dimension-Polyant Proradial cloth. The cloth looks good but the pictures attached show what appears to be "cupping" between the seams. There has only been light wind so we haven't been able to give them a real work out but I am concerned enough to ask if anyone has had this experience and what it might mean?
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Old 11-06-2015, 00:32   #2
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Ostinato:

Many years sailing, never saw a new supposedly high quality triradial headsail with that cupping. I suppose it might "come right" after being exposed to a stiff breeze. I guess what I'd do is talk to the sailmaker and get his advice, 'cause it's best if they're on your side to whatever extent possible. If the sailmaker sailmaker says it will equalize, why then you'll have to see. But do keep written notes in your ship's log about your concerns, what has been said, and actions taken. Such documentation can help you at a later stage of bargaining.

Ann

P.S. I changed this post to elimiinate an error: if you already read it and wonder WTF happened, what happened is that the main in question was a different fabric: Hydranet. Jim set me right.
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Old 11-06-2015, 05:53   #3
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Something is wrong with the assembly. Looks like the sewing machine had way to much upper and lower thread tension and the stitching has caused the seams to "shrink". This is a more common thing seen on spinnakers where you really have to back the thread tension off to get flat seams. The fact that they have done two rows on the radial seams probably made matters worse. The shape of the patching signifies they don't know much about corner loading so I would be asking questions about how much experience this sailmaker has.

It could go away if you take it for a sail in some breeze, I'm not 100% sure.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:24   #4
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

As a sewing machine tech, I agree with Kestrahl about the thread tensions.
I doubt it's really a problem though, After you've used it for awhile it will probably flatten out.
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Old 11-06-2015, 18:11   #5
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Agree with kestrahl re the stitching, I think it will flatten out with a few good blows.
The corner reinforcing is not too bad, I have seen a lot worse! Would like some reinforcing on leech between the reefs.


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Old 11-06-2015, 19:12   #6
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

I have nothing to say about the sail.... but Love the boat..

Still trying to find the dimensions to complete the order for my Genoa. Supposedly, the 401 and 40 have slightly different rigs.
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Old 11-06-2015, 23:11   #7
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

I didn't realize sewing tension could do this but we did notice that tension was one of several problems with these sails (that seem less critical at this point). Unfortunately I am not optimistic about what this sailmaker will do if it doesn't work itself out as has been suggested. Another cruiser ordered a sail at the same time with the same cloth. It was delivered earlier than ours and also had tensioning problems. They have had no real satisfaction to date and have already left Turkey.
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Old 11-06-2015, 23:34   #8
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Its not right even if it comes right with some breeze the seams will ultimately stretch less and it will return to haunt you. Disclaimer is that I'm not a sail makers arse but I have the same problem along the foot of a genoa where the uv strip is sewn on.
Hope you get it sorted.
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:01   #9
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

I dont make sails but if I remember this problem was covered in Pardy's book, Storm Tactics, in which poor sewing together with the wrong material was the culprit. I guess that seems obvious but the point was that one really shouldnt sail with a sail like that because even small puckers and cups greatly affect the ability of wind to pass correctly. They should be re-made. Pardy went on quite a bit about this.
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Old 12-06-2015, 09:43   #10
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Can't say about the quality of the sail, but would re-emphasize what Ann said. Keep a detailed record of every contact with the sail maker and the items discussed. If, at any time, things get chilly and he starts backing away, I have found that simply showing someone a well organized file with detailed entries will warm them back up and encourage cooperation. This has saved many headaches and bickering over the last 20 years. Hope it's fine without all that though.
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Old 12-06-2015, 11:00   #11
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Just a suggestion but get the tel# for "Nance and Underwood" sailmakers and riggers in Ft.Lauderdale and ask to speak with Roger Underwood, tell him Pat N. formerly from there and now in Tampa told U to call. Send him a photo and he will tell U whats causing the problem.
Send him my regards also.............
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Old 12-06-2015, 13:59   #12
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Agree with most of the above. However, a well made sail would not have the apparent problem - what if you don't sail in big air? That sail will certainly underperform.
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Old 12-06-2015, 14:12   #13
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phydeaux View Post
Agree with most of the above. However, a well made sail would not have the apparent problem.
Absolutely, its rubbish, send it back sharpish.

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Old 12-06-2015, 18:02   #14
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

I think maybe it is not about sewing/thread choice nor tension.

We had the same problem with the same fabric (DP).

In our case, the sailmaker selected wrong cloth technology for the cut.

We had a bi-radial sail made out of cross-cut intended dacron.

You can see if this is the case when you look closely at how the fill and warp are oriented in your sail.

b.
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Old 12-06-2015, 20:39   #15
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Re: What's wrong with this jib?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I think maybe it is not about sewing/thread choice nor tension.

We had the same problem with the same fabric (DP).

In our case, the sailmaker selected wrong cloth technology for the cut.

We had a bi-radial sail made out of cross-cut intended dacron.

You can see if this is the case when you look closely at how the fill and warp are oriented in your sail.

b.
If this should prove to be the case, I reckon the sail is stuffed, as in worthless! It will not hold shape because the load lines will not be properly aligned with the cloth, and evil stretching will be inevitable.

Maybe the apprentice designed/built the sail??

A real shame... hope the sailmaker does the right thing for you.

Jim.
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