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Old 30-10-2015, 08:00   #1
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What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

I've seen a few images of booms with cradles attached to the sides.

I assume this is to help with furling, instead of lazy jacks?
Sort of like a poor mans Park Avenue boom.

Anybody know what they are called ?

How well they work ?

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Old 30-10-2015, 08:43   #2
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

I believe they're called "boom wings"


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Old 30-10-2015, 09:01   #3
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Most often used not "instead of", but "in concert with" lazy jacks.

The boom wings extend outwards to catch the mainsail as it is lowered (flaked or reefed). Lazy jacks ensure that the mainsail is captured/confined within the confines of the recessed area of the boom deck and hides the bulk of the sail when moored.
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Old 30-10-2015, 09:40   #4
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

I am definitely adding a set to my boom overhaul. I've installed two on other folk's boats and they are VERY cool, especially with preventing snags with the battens. Mine are going to "gull wing" out a bit further from the boom and form a basket, using a sail cover with a zipper top that remains attached to the basket. It will also capture rain for my water tanks. These units also give you a great handhold when on the cabintop.
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Old 31-10-2015, 00:31   #5
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Except for the hand hold function (which is not to be minimized), doesn't a stack pack do the same thing?
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Old 31-10-2015, 00:38   #6
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Hall Spars has the V boom on larger and luxury sailing yachts.. I thought about welding something similar to my AL boom with some thin AL plate. Down the road project though.

http://www.hallspars.com/v/vspfiles/...ms_vbooms.html

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Old 31-10-2015, 01:46   #7
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

OMG, but those are some Butt Ugly examples. Sorry Roy, but I just couldn't choke down the truth on this one. And aside from astetic editing, they could use a bit of tuning, strength wise, IMO. As at some point, voluntarily or not, someone will wind up hanging off of them. For fun, or to catch themselves from falling, & or going swimming.

The concept of such toys, started on some of the big, RTW, ocean racers. The single/short-handed type, where you don't have much, if any help when reefing. And such boats run very few sail slides when you consider the size of such sails on the hoist.
So, that each flake of the main on those boats when taking a reef, is quite wide. And it gave that sail area somewhere to "land" (on).

Thus, they were something of a sail control device, especially as, typically, the ends of the lazy jacks are/were secured to the ends of each "elbow".
But... back then, they also were pretty much oriented purely in the horizontal plane. So as to give the perks of a Park Avenue boom, but without all of the windage. Although, I think that the Park Avenue boom thing was a direct outgrowth from them.

When designed properly, if placed in the right location(s), they add a bit of stiffness to the boom's section. And done right, they're probably the easiest way to beef up a boom.
You just have a piece of flat stock, which goes up against the boom's side, & the wings protrude out from the side of said stock. However, the original type tended to have 2 legs in the horizontal plane, & then a third, middle leg angled downwards for structural support. Much like the one posted by the OP.

Roys tip about the rain catchment setup is a good one. And also, if you're going to go to the trouble of having some added, then it also makes sense to also put a 2'-3' long, handrail onto the boom, on either side of the boom's forward end.
It's a great place to hang onto, or tie into when working at the mast. As well as being a handy spot to hang spare sail ties, & various sundry lines.


PS: There's always the Catch-22 when welding Aluminum, & attaching such accessories. That being, most alloys in marine use are weakened by such. Although the strength returns slowly over time.
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Old 31-10-2015, 08:06   #8
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I am swooning in delight at my version of these units. Even the two first ones were strong enough to do pull-ups with complete confidence, and I am a big guy. Stack packs are cool, but they don't separate the lazy jacks far enough. But, to tell the truth, I had been considering making a composite tee-boom, then my rigger friend Fritz Richardson, a guy with excellent multihull street cred, told me of a welder friend of his that was producing these "baskets" (or whatever name will eventually evolve), I really began to think about the possibilities. Having a solid handhold, not having to take off and put on the sailcover, being able to have the boat name stitched permanently, high up, having an efficient way to capture lots of clean water, and being able to drop the main (because I'm adding a Tuff Luff track) quickly into the basket without furling, unless I'm reefing, all of these just seem to shine for me. We'll see how it works out. My boat is my playground, so I tend to do things to it that make me giggle. Kind of like my RIB launch/retrieve system....
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Old 31-10-2015, 08:16   #9
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

I raise and lower the sail typically once each day. I've had Dutchman for decades and once adjusted properly and after the sail has some memory re flakes... it's totally simply and trouble free. I have a long boom and pretty tall mast (fractional) and the sail drops pretty much straight down with a little help at the mast to remind the sail which side to flake. This needs to be done... of course, head to wind. The grommets in the sail are not cool looking but they have little impact on cruising performance.

Those wings are very unattractive to my eye.
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Old 31-10-2015, 08:49   #10
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I am swooning in delight at my version of these units. Even the two first ones were strong enough to do pull-ups with complete confidence, and I am a big guy. Stack packs are cool, but they don't separate the lazy jacks far enough. But, to tell the truth, I had been considering making a composite tee-boom, then my rigger friend Fritz Richardson, a guy with excellent multihull street cred, told me of a welder friend of his that was producing these "baskets" (or whatever name will eventually evolve), I really began to think about the possibilities. Having a solid handhold, not having to take off and put on the sailcover, being able to have the boat name stitched permanently, high up, having an efficient way to capture lots of clean water, and being able to drop the main (because I'm adding a Tuff Luff track) quickly into the basket without furling, unless I'm reefing, all of these just seem to shine for me. We'll see how it works out. My boat is my playground, so I tend to do things to it that make me giggle. Kind of like my RIB launch/retrieve system....
Thread drift alert.

Isn't Tuff Luff a foil system for the headsail? Sounds like you're talking about putting one on your mast. I have a Strong Track on my mast, so I've got that down. Or are we really talking about a furling boom and you want to be able to drop the main into the "basket" without furling it.
Confused.

As far as Lazy Jack not separated out far enough, that sounds like the ones I see people who attach the top ends to the mast rather than out on the spreaders. That is where having them separated out really makes a difference in my book. Down on the boom it is a non-issue for me.
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Old 31-10-2015, 09:15   #11
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Thread drift response...Don (Mingaat), Schaefer has a patent on an articulating Tuff Luff track designed for the mainsail. It is designed to be used with in boom furling, but I'm not sure there is any reason (other than the obvious one of trying to control a mainsail whose only luff attachment is through a feeder to the foil on the track) it can't be used without the furling system. IMHO with a loose foot main and the absence of sail car attachments on the luff, the sail would be unruly and nearly impossible to manage in any kind of breeze. There is a relatively large slot created between the articulating Tuff Luff foil and the mast. I'm guessing this will create turbulent flow aft of the mast which may have a small effect on the main trim and performance.
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Old 31-10-2015, 09:23   #12
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Minggat, thank you, you are absolutely correct, I meant the Strong Track System by Tides Marine. In my defense, caffeine must be absorbed in my system before I do anything with sharp objects, motor vehicles or use a keyboard. You saved me from serious injury. Thank you. I am preparing to pull my stick next month for a complete overhaul and renovation. The Strong Track is a key part in this plan, and is what is forcing the issue about capturing the sail. I have a center cockpit boat and with the speed of descent of the main, this basket is going to make handling the main so much easier and controllable. Now, back to my second cup.
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Old 31-10-2015, 09:33   #13
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Hello Roy. I am in Tacoma and was looking for a Searunner 34, one that didn't require me to rebuild the damned thing. Do you know of one that's available, or something similar? I currently have a monohull, and sail it in the ocean, but am looking for a multihull, not too big, so I can single hand it.
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Old 31-10-2015, 09:46   #14
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Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
I am definitely adding a set to my boom overhaul. I've installed two on other folk's boats and they are VERY cool, especially with preventing snags with the battens. Mine are going to "gull wing" out a bit further from the boom and form a basket, using a sail cover with a zipper top that remains attached to the basket. It will also capture rain for my water tanks. These units also give you a great handhold when on the cabintop.
Roy, I for one think it looks great and adding a little gull wing seem like a good idea. Lazy jacks are good but this would seem to eliminate wadding at the bottom. I'd love to see you post the finished product.
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Old 31-10-2015, 13:21   #15
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Wink Re: What do you call these mainsail furling "helpers" ? And do they work ?

The Park avenue boom idea came out of mega yacht sailboats where the main is so big that it just can't stack on the boom. The Beneteau 60 I saw in annap this year had a park avenue style wide boom. Picture attached (I hope). It's becoming more popular. Although a boat of that size I'd much rather have in mast furling or in boom.

If you want nice mainsail control a Strong track (tides marine) and a dutchman system work super well on most main sails and the dutchman just contains it on the boom and you don't have to go forward to even put a sail tie on. You also get the added benefit that you can reef in just about any wind and on a Catalina 380 I owned some time back I installed one on I could raise the main by hand without a winch to the mast head.

Also with these added on boom wings, like installing mast steps on a mast all the way up, you are drilling a hundred plus holes (usually all in a line). I'd rather have as few holes in my spars as possible.
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