Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-12-2017, 16:28   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 60
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Yes i lost the whole rig at midnight in 25 knots in a nasty steep 3m swell. The rig looked fine prior to that. You cant see corrosion in the swages and one of the cap shroud swages pulled out due to inner strands being wasted. The rig was prob as old as the boat about 17 yrs. Every boat i have bought since then i automatically renew the wires as i dont want a repeat of a very stressful event. You dont want to be worrying everytime the wind gets up when cruising especially thousands of miles from help.

It is actually not that expensive if you remove shrouds 2 at a time and replace them yourself. Inexpensive insurance and peace of mind.

Good luck

Andrew
__________________

__________________
elandra65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2017, 18:50   #47
Registered User
 
Aguabago's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SE Asia / Colorado
Boat: bruce roberts mauritius 44
Posts: 15
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

My insurance won't cover my 16 year old rigging or any related issues. Thinking that through, if i am in a blow in the middle of the ocean and lose the rig and then subsequently have to abandon ship, then nothing is covered by insurance. A rigger inspected it and says its fine, but would cost $6k to replace.

Being of finite funds, I'm undecided on replacement, or when. But this thread is definitely food for thought.
__________________

__________________
Aguabago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2017, 18:52   #48
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,045
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

I just replaced my 30 yr old rigging, it looked fine. I have been an aircraft inspector for years, usually level 2 NDT. Crack propagation growth in high strength steels is extremely rapid, meaning it may test fine today and break next month.
The only other thing I can think of that has not been said is that apparently some boats rigging is oversized, or said another way is less stressed than others in identical sailing conditions, itís plausible that oversized rigging should last longer as its subjected to much less fatigue and corrosion becomes the issue then.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2017, 19:02   #49
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Boat: Hitchhiker, Catamaran, 40'
Posts: 354
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

The wire itself is not just going to fail without warning. It is true that the original quality of some older rigging is better than you can get today. If you have roller furling it would be a good idea to at least replace the fore stay since you can not see it an is the source of a lot of dis-mastings. It is entirely possible to replace your rigging in increments without taking the mast down. The most likely culprits of dis- mastings are probably chain plate or stem fitting failures and the bottom swages. It is also true that new rigging can fail due to a defect. But since you are asking the question, it means that you have doubts. You will never have peace of mind when the wind picks up now until you replace or at least do a dye penetration test on everything. If you do not have externally mounted chainplates, you should start there. If your cap shrouds and forestay don't fail it is unlikely that you will lose the rig. Stalok makes extra long "repair" fittings which I am using this year to replace my lower swages. My wire looks great so I will reuse it for now. I did order a new forestay and am installing new chainplates. I am calling it a partial rig replacement.
__________________
Thumbs Up is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2017, 20:07   #50
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,333
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Interestingly, no one mentioned redesigning aspects of rigging that failed prematurely (less then 20 years). I find that pretty strange given that if it failed (as early as 6 years) there is a very probability it was under built.

Seems even more obvious and defensible that the "replace it after 10 years" mantra, that so far we have not seen a statistical support for. Re-engineering, on the other hand, has an inescapable logic (parts that are over strength do not fatigue).

In fact, if I were to replace my rigging, I would go up a gauge. I did on my first boat after an early failure (crack). I also redesigned the toggle.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2017, 21:31   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kentucky
Boat: 1969 Rhoades 28'
Posts: 140
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Interestingly, no one mentioned redesigning aspects of rigging that failed prematurely (less then 20 years). I find that pretty strange given that if it failed (as early as 6 years) there is a very probability it was under built.

Seems even more obvious and defensible that the "replace it after 10 years" mantra, that so far we have not seen a statistical support for. Re-engineering, on the other hand, has an inescapable logic (parts that are over strength do not fatigue).

In fact, if I were to replace my rigging, I would go up a gauge. I did on my first boat after an early failure (crack). I also redesigned the toggle.


Quote from a friend retired from communication tower rigging:

"Nothing too strong ever broke."


On my 28 foot sloop, everything is 1/4" stainless with the shroud chainplates at the toerail. That seems conservative. I hope so anyway.
__________________
TreblePlink is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 06:09   #52
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 2,825
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Some here seem to ridicule those who purchase insurance and choose to follow accepted industry guidelines. I’m not really sure that’s good advice for your average sailor.

However, to another extreme. I have a customer that replaced all his standing rigging and I think chainplates on a well respected 44’ cruising design. This work was all done within the last 2 years. His insurer is now saying he needs a complete rigging inspection completed this year to be covered offshore. Wouldn’t the receipts from the work performed be adequate? This does seem like going to far.
__________________
Check out my MoJo: Facebook.com/mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 06:31   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Port Aransas, Texas
Boat: 2002 Seawind 1000 (33 ft) Cat
Posts: 841
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Had the port shroud break 2-3 strands about six feet down from the connection. Was around 2012, on a 2002 boat. Was doing a race, and looked up and saw the strands had broken and were coming unwound. No wear in that area, nothing rubbed, could not explain it. Took down the sails and motored in. Had shrouds and forestay replaced then. In 2015, we took down the mast to install conduit for radar, rewire, new lights, etc., and had all standing rigging replaced then before we headed out on Bahamas trip. Including the mast stays and all fittings.

I want to be able to depend on my rig. We've been caught in 32 knot sustained winds, double reefed, and pushing the boat hard as we were racing. Watching the mast pump in the gusts, you really want to make sure the rigging is good. Having it come down mid ocean is a pretty solid way to assure my wife never gets back on the boat again, or worse.

Oh, and my BIL has a late 90's Catalina 27 with original rigging. But its a fresh water boat, and the mast and sails are much smaller than mine. Plus I think cat loads get much higher as monohulls tend to heal and unload in high wind. My guess.
__________________
sailjumanji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 06:44   #54
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 2,825
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Yep, lots of boats barely ever sail. One forum member claims “my sta-loks look great after 21 years in tropics” yet I happen to know his boat has been tucked up a creek near New Bern for the last 10 years. Is that really “severe tropical conditions”??

Enjoy your sailing!
__________________
Check out my MoJo: Facebook.com/mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 11:22   #55
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,828
Images: 4
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

I was looking at my rig this morning since this thread sparked my interest. Guess what I found on our lower diamond stay....we just spend 6 months sailing all over the Bahamas followed with dry tortugas, keys to ft pierce trips. So lucky we didn't lose our mast.
Click image for larger version

Name:	1512757292956.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	101.4 KB
ID:	160267
__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 11:51   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,940
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
I was looking at my rig this morning since this thread sparked my interest. Guess what I found on our lower diamond stay....we just spend 6 months sailing all over the Bahamas followed with dry tortugas, keys to ft pierce trips. So lucky we didn't lose our mast.
Attachment 160267
Yep, crevice corrosion is easy to miss in stainless fittings...and then it fails suddenly.
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 11:54   #57
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 2,825
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Yep those type toggles will do that. Mind if I use that picture on my Facebook page? How old? 20 years??
__________________
Check out my MoJo: Facebook.com/mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 11:59   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Seattle, WA
Boat: C&C Landfall 38
Posts: 255
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
I was looking at my rig this morning since this thread sparked my interest. Guess what I found on our lower diamond stay....we just spend 6 months sailing all over the Bahamas followed with dry tortugas, keys to ft pierce trips. So lucky we didn't lose our mast.
Attachment 160267
Looks like you have a whole bunch of lines jammed under that toggle? That would defeat some of the toggling ability of the toggle I would think (yes the lines will compress some under load, but still not good). Those toggles are supposed to have 2-directional freedom of motion - you only have one direction unencumbered. Still would've failed (corrosion is corrosion), but might have held on a bit longer.
__________________
Tessellate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 12:08   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: No home port, full time cruiser
Boat: Amel 53
Posts: 182
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tessellate View Post
My Navtec rod rig was 33 years old when I replaced it last year. No failures. I know a few boats going on 40 years with rod.
So why did you replace it when it was 33 years old? That after all is "just a number."

Of course none of us have ever seen a rig in the marina that failed. Those masts are at the bottom of the sea. It's like saying people will live to 100 years old because all the 100 year old people I have ever seen were alive.
__________________
billknny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 12:21   #60
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,828
Images: 4
Re: Use old standing rigging? Ever had a failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tessellate View Post
Looks like you have a whole bunch of lines jammed under that toggle? That would defeat some of the toggling ability of the toggle I would think (yes the lines will compress some under load, but still not good). Those toggles are supposed to have 2-directional freedom of motion - you only have one direction unencumbered. Still would've failed (corrosion is corrosion), but might have held on a bit longer.
Still has almost an inch of space to move but hopefully never moves that much.
__________________

__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rigging

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Standing rigging failure in Cancun isla Mujeres Troylance Monohull Sailboats 8 29-03-2015 19:58
Re: Rigging, Compression Fittings for Standing Rigging Maineiac_sailor Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 26-01-2011 08:30



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.