|
|
02-02-2011, 13:30
|
#1
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Liveaboard
Boat: Allied Luders 33, Hull 98, 1971
Posts: 393
|
Triple Reefed Main vs Deep Second Reef
I'm looking into buying new sails and wanted a triple reefed main, since I plan to sail offshore.
However, the guy at UK recommended I stick with two, but make the second one really deep, more or less where a 3rd reef would have been. His rational was that the 3rd reef added so much extra weight aloft that it really hurt performance and wasn't worth it.
Does it make sense to only have 2 reefs if the second one is really deep? He said each additional reef pointed added around 15% to the cost of the sail.
__________________
don
NV5L
S/V Aurora
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 13:36
|
#2
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Miami
Boat: Boatless
Posts: 1,578
|
We sail offshore but the boat would be hard to rig with a storm trysail.
We actually have 4 reefs in the main and the time we were out in 45 gusting 55 knots I wished I had the 4th reef rigged as the deep 3rd was a little too much in the gusts...200 sq ft on a boat that weighs 30 tons.
No affect on performance as far as I can see, but then I have 13 oz cloth. I bought mine from National Sails in Florida, they are agents for Rolly Tasker in the Orient and it is the best built sail I have ever owned.
__________________
Phil
"Remember, experience only means that you screw-up less often."
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 13:41
|
#4
|
Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,151
|
Well, what does this chap think you should do when you needed that normal second reef? Don't know what sort of reefing system you use, but if one doesn't put in the intermediate reef points complete with lanyards the additional weight aloft on a cruising boat would not "really hurt performance". The cost argument may be true (he should know what he is gonna charge you) but sometimes you just gotta pay the bills and grin!
We've always gone for three reefs in cruising mains, and have used all three of them all too frequently. I wouldn't skimp here.
Cheers,
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Towlers Bay, NSW, Oz
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 14:48
|
#5
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gloucester, MA
Boat: CS 36t
Posts: 387
|
What are you planning to do with this mainsail? Are you racing or are you cruising?
For cruising, I prefer to have 2 reefs that each take away significantly more sail than a normal one does. This provides adequate adjustability and usually doesn't require re-rigging a boom. Usually when people decide to reef, they should be putting in more than a single conventional reef (this obviously doesn't apply to everyone).
For racing, 3 would definitely be the way to go since having more fine tuning is necessary. It also may make sense if you occasionally go offshore and want an extra reef for those times but otherwise would like to only use the other two. Keep in mind that a lot of people don't rig the third reef and then when they want it, it is too rough to rig. If you have it and you might encounter wind requiring it, it needs to be rigged ahead of time.
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 14:52
|
#6
|
Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,033
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by klem
For cruising, I prefer to have 2 reefs that each take away significantly more sail than a normal one does. .
|
I agree with this. We have use two deep reefs on our sail for quite a well.
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 14:57
|
#7
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Miami
Boat: Boatless
Posts: 1,578
|
4 reefs...Coastal cruising we rig 1,2 and 3...Off-shore we rig 2,3 and 4...
Gives me a main that will work up to 60 knots after that we will have to sail on the stackpack!
__________________
Phil
"Remember, experience only means that you screw-up less often."
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 15:07
|
#8
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Liveaboard
Boat: Allied Luders 33, Hull 98, 1971
Posts: 393
|
No racing, just cruising, mostly singlehanded.
Based on what you've all said, I guess 2 reefs would be okay if the first was deep enough. Currently, with 2 reefs, I still have a lot of sail up -- though I can't tell you how much off the top of my head.
Is there a good rule of thumb on how much each reef should be? I've got a Luders-33.
__________________
don
NV5L
S/V Aurora
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 15:17
|
#9
|
cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,030
|
I with boatman on this, cruising mostly have 1st reef in. Offshore I find I used the 3rd reef gets used a lot just where you wouldn't expect it - close to becalmed. 3 reefs in main and the mainsheet / preventer tight would take the slatting down to a level which though annoying was at least closer to bearable.
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 15:38
|
#10
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cruising Greece
Boat: Cat in the med & Trawler in Florida
Posts: 2,323
|
3 reefs works great for just about everything,
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 15:41
|
#11
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
|
We have 3 reefs.
For harbor racing we run 1 reef line, or 2 if the forecast predicates
For coastal racing we run 2 reef lines, or 3 if the forecast predicates
For offshore racing we always run 3 reef lines
For cruising we run 3 reef lines
We always carry a trisail too, and have set it a couple of times, just so we know how.
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 15:48
|
#12
|
Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,033
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nv5l
Is there a good rule of thumb on how much each reef should be? I've got a Luders-33.
|
For two reefs, one normal method is to remove 15% of the hoist with each reef. This makes the first reef about 70% of the full mainsail area, and the second reef about 50% of the full mainsail area.
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 15:50
|
#13
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,959
|
If I had just two reef points I'd make them about equal in height and the total the same as whatever the standard triple height is.
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 16:09
|
#14
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cayuga Lake NY - or on the boat somewhere south of there
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,355
|
I do exactly what Weyalan does. In Chesapeake Bay I dont rig the third reef because in wind that heavy I just find a place to hide. Down here in the Caribbean I am sailing most of the time with two reefs in - the third is very deep and is what the rigger called my "oh sh#t reef". Out in the ocean I am happy to have all three of them.
|
|
|
02-02-2011, 16:13
|
#15
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Boat: N/M 45
Posts: 291
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nv5l
Is there a good rule of thumb on how much each reef should be? I've got a Luders-33.
|
I singlehand, cruise, and race. The mainsail is set up with 3 reef points, each takes out 25% of the mainsail surface area. A more typical reef might remove 20% of the sail area.
I do not agree that two deep reefs is better than three more moderate depth reefs; you want options if you can have them, and the more control you have of mainsail area gives you more options. This does give you have extra set of reef lines to contend with, verify the deck layout will handle the extra line(s) before building the mainsail.
I leave all reef lines in the sail, and the sail does not have bunt line points (the mainsail is also loose-footed, makes it easy to adjust reef lines along the boom as needed). The reef lines themselves are 5/16" Samson Warpspeed spectra, reasonably light, which could be made lighter by stripping the covers. There is a noticeable hit to mainsail shape in very light air (less than 5 knots) plus the additional drag of the reef lines trailing along the mainsail leach.
- rob/beetle
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|
|
|