Toggle misalignment. Opionions please!

[Snowpetrel]

You are right to be worried. Something isn't right. It should self align. Either it is jammed, bent or caught somehow.

I'd slack it off and look carefully at what is going on.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Patrigo

A stay is a stay, and a shroud is a shroud. A stay cannot by definition be a shroud and vice versa. Just pointing out a very common misuse of very common nautical terms. Just as a bow is not a stern.

"On a sailboat, the shrouds are pieces of standing rigging which hold the mast up from side to side. There is frequently more than one shroud on each side of the boat.

Usually a shroud will connect at the top of the mast, and additional shrouds might connect partway down the mast, depending on the design of the boat. Shrouds terminate at their bottom ends at the chain plates, which are tied into the hull. They are sometimes held outboard by channels, a ledge that keeps the shrouds clear of the gunwales."

[Ausluke]

Futher inpection has shown the pin that goes through the turnbuckle eyelet is swollen on the right side. Creating an unevan pull against the toggle.Eyeballing it, about 3-4 mm it has grown in diameter i recon.
As a welder of exotic steels im thinking corrosion is happening inside making it swell. Ill have a local rigger here in croatia tell me what should be done.

This is my first sail boat and have owned it a total 7 months. So my terminology about these boat parts is obviously abit green..

[Mike Banks]

I think there are too many connections crowded in to this one anchor point. They need some separation, and what I would do is use some high quality shackles between the anchor point and the turnbuckle toggle-shackles to un-clutter the space, provide some separation and to provide extra flexibility so as to avoid metal fatigue.

Stainless steel is a BASTARD for metal fatigue. What is worse is that it is completely invisible until it fractures. A couple of links of chain or a shackle may look a little messy--but the last thing one needs is a fracture in an essential support.
.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Hit it with a hammer till it lines up.

LOL … like they say: If you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's certain to be an electrical problem . . .

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

I think there are too many connections crowded in to this one anchor point. They need some separation, and what I would do is use some high quality shackles between the anchor point and the turnbuckle toggle-shackles to un-clutter the space, provide some separation and to provide extra flexibility so as to avoid metal fatigue.

Stainless steel is a BASTARD for metal fatigue. What is worse is that it is completely invisible until it fractures. A couple of links of chain or a shackle may look a little messy--but the last thing one needs is a fracture in an essential support.
.

Pretty sure the engineers at Dufour thought about it.

[Sailorbob8599]

I forgot to comment; LOVE THOSE BEAUTIFUL TEAK DECKS! But you should have covered them up for the photo-shoot, because many of the old pharts on this forum will tell you that you made a big faux pas . . . crying in unison saying, "You never should have bought a boat with teak decks because they're nothing but BIG trouble."
As for your concern with the rigging point, I would release the tension, disassemble, clean the parts well, replace pin if bent, and then coat the parts with Lanolin prior to reassembling. The Lanolin will act as a lubricant. Readjust the tension, sit back, have a libation while congratulating yourself on doing a grand job while all the time realizing what a beautiful boat you own. Sometimes we worry too much about small things that are easily remedied.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

I think there are too many connections crowded in to this one anchor point. They need some separation, and what I would do is use some high quality shackles between the anchor point and the turnbuckle toggle-shackles to un-clutter the space, provide some separation and to provide extra flexibility so as to avoid metal fatigue.

Stainless steel is a BASTARD for metal fatigue. What is worse is that it is completely invisible until it fractures. A couple of links of chain or a shackle may look a little messy--but the last thing one needs is a fracture in an essential support.
.

Yep, they done it all wrong again! Let's re-engineer the whole thing.

[Jim Cate]

As for your concern with the rigging point, I would release the tension, disassemble, clean the parts well, replace pin if bent, and then coat the parts with Lanolin prior to reassembling.

I wonder if you have ever tried to get the pin out of a rigging screw? It requires a serious press and often destroys the eye in the process. Not as simple as you suggest.

For the OP, to me it looks like the problem is not in the rigging screw end of the toggle, but rather binding on the clevis that goes through the chain plate. It could just be an artifact of the photo, but that's where the misalignment appears to be.

Jim

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

I forgot to comment; LOVE THOSE BEAUTIFUL TEAK DECKS! But you should have covered them up for the photo-shoot, because many of the old pharts on this forum will tell you that you made a big faux pas . . . crying in unison saying, "You never should have bought a boat with teak decks because they're nothing but BIG trouble."
As for your concern with the rigging point, I would release the tension, disassemble, clean the parts well, replace pin if bent, and then coat the parts with Lanolin prior to reassembling. The Lanolin will act as a lubricant. Readjust the tension, sit back, have a libation while congratulating yourself on doing a grand job while all the time realizing what a beautiful boat you own. Sometimes we worry too much about small things that are easily remedied.

No need to worry about those teak decks. This is a newer model boat and you will notice there are no bungs for screws. They vacuum bag these on nowadays with no concern for leaking in the future.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I wonder if you have ever tried to get the pin out of a rigging screw? It requires a serious press and often destroys the eye in the process. Not as simple as you suggest.

Jim

I removed a couple when I fitted the roller furler and wanted to put a shackle onto the inner forestay on my previous boat. Being aware of how soft stainless tends to be and not wanting to "swell" the end I was attempting to drive through I drilled about a 3/8" hole about 2/3 of the way through the pin then put a pin punch into the hole and drove the pin out without swelling it. You might say pulled it out from the top end?

I wonder if someones tried to drive it for a similar purpose and when it swelled swapped it?

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

No need to worry about those teak decks. This is a newer model boat and you will notice there are no bungs for screws. They vacuum bag these on nowadays with no concern for leaking in the future.

I should know, my deck is also vacuum bagged & yet I still hear those same detractors braying "oh no, teak decks are the worst" which causes potential buyers to shy away from even considering to purchase it. Cost me $15k to deck my 24footer in teak, but it was worth it. Everyone who walks the dock stop to look at my boat but rarely pause to look at the plastic jelly beans.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I wonder if you have ever tried to get the pin out of a rigging screw? It requires a serious press and often destroys the eye in the process. Not as simple as you suggest.

For the OP, to me it looks like the problem is not in the rigging screw end of the toggle, but rather binding on the clevis that goes through the chain plate. It could just be an artifact of the photo, but that's where the misalignment appears to be.

Jim

As a matter of fact I have Jim … more than once; however, as the saying goes, 'there is usually more than one way to skin a cat' and we all realise no two problems are ever the same.
There appears to be sufficient shroud support on this vessel that the OP can release the tension on that particular turnbuckle, remove the lower pin from the deck anchor fitting, unscrew the bottom stud from the turnbuckle body & get the offending part into the workshop where one might work on it more comfortably as well as an optimum angle, providing the advantage of using better tools and equipment etc. etc. … attempting to drive the pin through while still attached to the deck fitting is simply asking for trouble. I doubt very much the mast will fall just because one shroud has been released for the relatively short time it will take to perform this repair. Why make a big issue of it?

[Jim Cate]

Why make a big issue of it?

No big deal IF you actually have access to a shop with a press. But, I doubt if he does, cruising in Croatia (IIRC). And I'm not convinced that there is anything wrong with the pin that is part of the rigging screw. From the picture, the lower part of the toggle, the part that goes over the chain plate, is not aligned with the shroud. Perhaps it is binding on the plate, or maybe on the clevis pin... hard to say.

I have my doubts about the pin "swelling" due to corrosion. That's not how s/s behaves normally... some better photos would help.

Finally, I agree that there is no problem with removing the shroud from the chain plate. May be wise to slack the opposing shroud so as to avoid a big bend.

Jim

[Ausluke]

She was definatly on its way out. The rigger said it was a lucky find.
Drilled a hole pushed the pin out with a punch. Prity effortless.
As he didnot have a new turn buckle to suit my shrouds swage fitting he just replaced the pin in the eyelet aswel as new toggle. As this swelling stretched the toggles on one side.

Im now trying to order 2 new toggles with the correct threaded eylets ( metric ) as the shroud on the otherside is heading the same way.

Learn from this if you thought it was nothing. ( i understand the pictures will not have shown the best angle/warrant for concern.. )