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Old 04-01-2011, 16:13   #31
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Was this an expensive endeavor? I am thinking of doing the same and getting rid of the pole. I sail with my wife and do all the spin work myself. Two years ago I used the chute 2 times, last year 0.

Are you snuffing it or rolling it?
I think it was ~$300 to have it reshaped.

We'll be using a sock.



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Old 04-01-2011, 16:32   #32
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Only a dill believes the rantings of the new gen aysym kites being useful at 60 degrees.
I don't know if it qualifies as a "belief", but we have one that we regularly fly at 50 degrees and easily pinch it up to 40* in lighter winds.

Maybe the ones who "believe" are dills, but people who do it routinely are not?

Ah, I see the problem - you are talking about the new gen aysym's. I don't know anything about those

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Old 04-01-2011, 16:51   #33
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we regularly fly at 50 degrees and easily pinch it up to 40* in lighter winds.

Maybe the ones who "believe" are dills, but people who do it routinely are not?
Have you checked you GPS for leeway?


Anyway, thats not the point for a cruising chute, imho. Its something to cover the dead spots. Mine are 150 degrees to dead astern and sailing by the lee. 120 to 150 my genoa is still fine

On a long leg being able to drop the main and just keep a kite up sailing anywhere from 150-180-150 would be a trade winds dream for me. As its a kite it would be fine 120-180-120, even better.


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Old 04-01-2011, 19:31   #34
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Have you checked you GPS for leeway?


Anyway, thats not the point for a cruising chute, imho. Its something to cover the dead spots. Mine are 150 degrees to dead astern and sailing by the lee. 120 to 150 my genoa is still fine

On a long leg being able to drop the main and just keep a kite up sailing anywhere from 150-180-150 would be a trade winds dream for me. As its a kite it would be fine 120-180-120, even better.


Mark
Leeway isn't an issue anymore than it would be for a genoa (in other words, boat dependent, not sail dependent). The code 0 type sails are much flatter than spinnakers and that is why they can set properly at higher angles.

These sails would not be a good choice for your needs, but they are a great choice for 50-135* in light winds, where many people need to sail (and cruise - not everyone is crossing oceans in trade winds in their cruising). A spinnaker won't work there.

Our boat sails like a witch 150-180-150 using its white sails (camberspar jib - a whole 'nother thread in itself), so the code 0 type sail really fills in the rest of the compass in light air for us.

So you are correct that the point of light air sails are to fill in the dead spots, it is just that those specific spots are dependent on the boat and normal cruising area conditions.

And if you are going to cruise the Caribbean, stuff the whole light air sail thing altogether and spend the money on a good reefing setup!

Mark
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Old 04-01-2011, 22:51   #35
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We had the symmetric chute cut to an a-symmetric.

Now the question is if we should get rid of that huge heavy mast-mounted pole. I'm really inclined to get rid of it to reduce the weight top-side, decrease mast clutter and simplify things in general. It would also free up space for the life raft canister right in front of the mast.

The response from our rigger (who is an avid racer) was a predictable "don't"

I'm still inclined to get rid of it. Thoughts ?

Thanks,


-Sven
I struggle with the same conundrum myself.

After I got a decent asymetrical, the symetricals never came out the bags. Too much hassle for not much gain

So my pole is only used for poling out a headsail in somewhere around 20 knots plus of wind and on a dead run. So it very rarely gets used.

If I was planning a trip with a lot of trade wind sailing, I'd have it on board.

If it's the normal pottering about the place sailing with smallish (few days) passages here and there I wouldn't bother. I won't have it on my next trip - the window of use is just to small for me.
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Old 05-01-2011, 01:52   #36
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G'Day all,

As others have said, it depends on the boat and the mind set of the crew. A normal kite is indeed some work to set up and sail with. The added performance on some boats and with some crews makes it worth the effort.

On Insatiable II we carry an elderly (1983 according to the measurer's marks on it) symmetrical kite. It's a masthead sail, originally for a Santa Cruz 52, and it's bloody big! But, in our short handed situation, in light airs it is remarkable how much faster it is than a genoa, on a pole or not. Ann and I seldom fly it in more than about 15 knots apparent, but this is the sort of conservatism that allows a couple of old farts to continue cruising. Having a good sock helps, but the forces get pretty big in higher winds, and we tend to strike it when the pucker factor gets too high.

None the less, we've done a lot of miles with it, and enjoy its use. Would hate to go sailing without it in the sail locker.

YMMV.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Towlers Bay, NSW, Oz
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:33   #37
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...... Its something to cover the dead spots. Mine are 150 degrees to dead astern.........Mark
I'm with Mark when it comes to use of my cruising chute. I have the same dead spot on my ketch and, in addition, it's part of my playtime to mess with the big sail. I do like the sock when it comes time to put the toy away!
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Old 05-01-2011, 13:26   #38
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Originally Posted by bewitched

I struggle with the same conundrum myself.

After I got a decent asymetrical, the symetricals never came out the bags. Too much hassle for not much gain

So my pole is only used for poling out a headsail in somewhere around 20 knots plus of wind and on a dead run. So it very rarely gets used.

If I was planning a trip with a lot of trade wind sailing, I'd have it on board.

If it's the normal pottering about the place sailing with smallish (few days) passages here and there I wouldn't bother. I won't have it on my next trip - the window of use is just to small for me.
How about getting rid of the spinnaker pole and getting a whisker pole? Lighter and easier to set up.
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Old 05-01-2011, 14:46   #39
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How about getting rid of the spinnaker pole and getting a whisker pole? Lighter and easier to set up.

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Old 05-01-2011, 15:00   #40
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We had a beautiful blue and gold (USNA colors) symetrical spinnaker on our first boat, an Ericson 30+. Unfortunately, we seldom had enough experienced crew aboard to fly it safely so we had it up only a dozen times in 20 years of owning the boat.

Our present cruising cat did not come with a spinnaker but when some cruising friends wanted to sell theirs that they had never used, we measured the rig and found it would fit. We now use it frequently for long passages downwind (120-180 degrees apparent). Here is a photo taken by another set of our cruising friends as we crossed the Gulf of Tehuantepec.
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Old 05-01-2011, 15:24   #41
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For cruising I'd fly a Twizzle before a spinnaker- less hassle.
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Old 05-01-2011, 19:00   #42
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Thank you all for the input, we you've certainly given us something to think about. Wisdom and experience is appreciated!

Sail safe,
Velma
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