Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-07-2009, 10:15   #1
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,249
To Single Line Reef or Not?

I have a 34' cat, and I'm going to be making some mods to my rig and running all of my lines back to the cockpit. I was thinking at the same time, maybe I'd also convert to single line reefing. 4 lines running back, would be a little neater, less cluttered than 6 lines, especially considering the size of my boat.

But after poking around on here, and doing some googling, it seems a lot of sailors out there aren't huge fans of it. I really want to keep the job as simple, and relatively cheap as possible. So I really don't like the idea of a bunch of extra blocks to reduce the friction.

Should I convert?
Or should I just stick with 2 lines, and deal with 2 extra lines running across my deck? They'd still be coming down the same path as the other 4 lines anyway.
__________________

__________________
off-the-grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2009, 10:41   #2
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Im not a big fan of this system, and i have a lot of troubles with the single line reef, if you have one of this nice mainsail packs like doyle or incidences mainsail packs just be careful because if you reef the sail from the cockpit you dont see the blocks and the reef line , some times the sail chafe and tear inside of this reef blocks , and to prevent this you need to climb to the coachroof and see whats going on inside of the sailpack , very dangerous in heavy weather, conventional reefing system is trouble free , more work but trouble free!! also if your cata have a ZSPAR boom with all the internal seaves and blocks for single line reefing , wacht for serious chafe in the reefing line. cHEERS
__________________

__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2009, 11:45   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,133
Have had it in my CS36Merlin for over twenty years. I love it. The blocks are inside the boom and I've had no problems. Still the original reefing lines although I've replaced the halyards on this boat. Got a little bit scared with going aloft on 21 year old halyards. Just ease the halyard to the mark (I've marked the main halyard at the reefs) haul in the reefing line, tighten the halyard and away we go. All from the cockpit. What could be simpler? .... maybe in mast furling.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2009, 13:28   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Assume you've got a decently tall mast and maybe three reef points. A single line for the 2nd and 3rd reef point gets to be too long. On our boat with a 40' tall mast, the third reef line would have been over 60' long and forced to go through 4 friction points. Way too much line and friction.

The solution is to go with separate reef lines for the clew and tack. The tack line is under little tension until the clew is hauled in so doesn't require a winch and is very easy and quick to pull in by hand. You then have half the line and two less friction points pulling down the clew reef. Really makes it easy to pull in the clew down and actually can be done without a winch if you use the topping lift. Still would want a winch to reef in high wind conditions, however. Actually think the reefing is faster with the double line system than a single line. Reefing procedeure is freeing the halyard to a premarked position; pulling down the tack and securing it with a clutch; retension the halyard; haul in the clue and Bob's your uncle. My tack reefing lines and halyard are led to the port side, the clue lines to stbd. Running the halyard and clue lines to the same side would only require one winch though a bit more manuevering from side to side. First time I used the system, reefed 5 or 6 times in a couple of hours or so just because it was SO QUICK AND EASY. Oh, btw it's all done from the safety and security of the cockpit. That is a BIG deal.

Aloha
Peter O.
__________________
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 05:27   #5
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,308
I have "single" line with a block in the boom and a Doyle Stackpak on my boat. I don't have any problems with it. Just drop the sail to below the reef point that I can see in the cockpit, tighten the line and tighten the main back up. I would say the only downside is the amount of line in the cockpit that isn't really in the way as I just coil up and toss under the dodger. I didn't under the 1 post about problem going forward in weather to see the lines, if you slab reefing you would have to do this anyway.
__________________
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 05:35   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
When you raise the main you want as little friction as possible, especially if it heavy and large. If you have reefs set these may be friction points and make setting the main more difficult.

You should make sure your reefing lines are slack when you are raising your sail.

However when it comes time to reef, single line reefing means more hauling (2x) in of the reef line to get the tack and clew down to the boom. Depending on how far apart the reef point is take that distance and multiple it x4 for single line reefing for what you need to haul in and 2x for each single reef. If you want to lead the lines to the cockpit you need a additional fair leads / cleats/line stoppers and have more spaghetti in the cockpit.

I've had it rigged both ways and find the single line reefing is no real advantage, but I have the hardware for line management for either approach.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 06:01   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 497
Images: 1
We have single line reefing and I am not a big fan, there's a ton of friction in the system. There is no way we can bring the clew down tight to the boom it stays about 8" up because they ran the line to a block on the end of the boom. So I end up putting a line through the clew and hauling it down and around the boom and then back to a shackle on the end of the boom to try to get decent sail shape. Our second reef is just a bunch of grommets and it's not much more work to reef it since the clew is the hardest part. If we were keeping this boat I'd put a couple more blocks on it to improve the angles and see what happens, though a couple of people we know who did this said it added a lot of chafe to the sail where the blocks are.
__________________
jdoe71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 06:09   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
I did single line reefing on my Coronado 25. There was some friction at the clew so I hung one of those fancy light weight low friction carbo blocks from Harken on it. That helped a lot. Placement of the blocks on the boom is really important to get the clew down and back tight, but I like the system for that boat. Climbing up on the deck to go to the mast is a long step up and with this I can reef from the cockpit.
__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 06:53   #9
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,082
Got it - its fantastic - it just works Mind you the main is on bearing batten cars so that helps. I can reef on a reach by just dropping the traveller and easing the sheet for a few seconds, its great.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 07:31   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
I purchased on boat that had boom roller reefing for the main which has to be the worst main sail reefing system in existence. I converted it to single line reefing which has to be the second worst system. There was so much friction, I had to get up on deck to get things snug and even then it was difficult to really get the clew down where it should be.

I liked reefing from the cockpit so I went to double line and it worked quite well. I added a second set of clutches. On a cat, I might be more inclined to walk up to the mast.
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 09:44   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Single line reefing is OK if you have a power winch for the reefing line and the halyard, but otherwise is too much work.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 09:54   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,133
No power winch, on a 36 ft boat and it's quite easy. It might be a function of how many sheaves you have in the boom. I took my boom apart once and was surprised at the complexity. Here's how mine is set up.

__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 10:47   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
No power winch, on a 36 ft boat and it's quite easy. It might be a function of how many sheaves you have in the boom. I took my boom apart once and was surprised at the complexity. Here's how mine is set up.
Is there a mechanical advantage with the two pulleys inside the boom? My setup is identical to yours except it is one line all the way through and the friction is just incredible. But biggest problem is that the clew won't go down to the boom and the sail shape is lousy, the leech is way too loose, until I pull it down and back with another line.
__________________
jdoe71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 11:03   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,133
They are single sheave blocks. One pair for each reef. My clew comes right down to the boom when I reef. A long time since I took physics but as the blocks in the boom move I would think there might be a mechanical advantage. Hopefully some bright person can look at the diagram and tell us. I put it on a winch and it's very easy to grind.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2009, 11:32   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Quote:
I would think there might be a mechanical advantage.
There is a slight advantage but I think it's it's negated by the added friction. You crank at least double the the line you take in (measured as the sum of both ends). A totally single line system could have mechanical advantage though i doubt you could find one. The boom length gets to be a factor so you can add a 2 to 1 purchase. But all single line has a high friction load as noted above. More common on smaller booms. At 36 ft it wouldn't work at all well that way. Our boom is set up like Vasco has. It works well enough but it isn't something that is easy to repair if you foul or snag a line. I sheared a foot block on the mast and wedged the first reef line in the cheek. Lucky me it was just when the reef was set. Very hard to get it out! Every turn on a block costs you something. For me the block was old and had some UV damage and the reef was being set late so of course was not easy. Setting reefs when it is easy is why they say to reef early.

When it's blowing 30 and you should have reefed at 20 it clearly is not easy. Don't under size the blocks. 7 times line diameter means a 10 mm reef line wants a 70 mm block.

For a single line system I would go with a down haul forward and use the single line for the clew. That method is pretty fool proof. Our last boat required going forward to set the downhaul. That has a distinct disadvantage (the going forward part). On larger boats I would prefer this single line system with the downhauls led back. In either case marking the set points on the lines is well advised. It helps to know when you really are almost done.
__________________

__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Single Line Reefing sailorboy1 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 4 14-06-2009 15:03
Birth of a Reef TaoJones Fishing, Recreation & Fun 0 19-08-2008 13:37
Alacran Reef Panama Dave Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 23-06-2008 06:26
Chinchorro reef jess66 Atlantic & the Caribbean 3 30-03-2008 03:33
Single line reefing harryvee Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 13 07-07-2006 19:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.