Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-04-2011, 05:53   #16
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: To replace rigging or not (yet)... that is the question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
This is entirely contrary to what I've been taught. One broken strand should be taken as a sign that it's time to replace not only the individual stay or shroud, but all the standing rigging. Indeed, I would go as far as to say that once the point has come where a strand breaks, you've waited too long.
Don't know who taught you....but after years of working in the marine trades of marine construction and salvage (where wire is used from everything including cranes to towing bridles)...I have a different perspective than the years I spent sailing in the perfect little world of West Marine advisor sailing.

Right from an OSHA manual about safety practices and broken strands...

Figure 87 Wire Rope Inspection

Up to six allowed in one rope
lay, OR three in one strand in one
rope lay, with no more than one at an attached fitting. Otherwise,
destroy and replace rope.

And if you read my post...I said not huge, UNLESS heading offshore....
__________________

__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2011, 06:58   #17
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,547
Images: 14
Re: To Replace Rigging or Not (Yet)

I think given the intended voyage replacing is justified. The North Sea is shallow and whilst quite small quickly develops nasty sea conditions with short steep waves driven by low pressure systems. Not a place for a yacht when it blows.

Pete
__________________

__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2011, 08:00   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,447
Re: To replace rigging or not (yet)... that is the question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Don't know who taught you....but after years of working in the marine trades of marine construction and salvage (where wire is used from everything including cranes to towing bridles)...I have a different perspective than the years I spent sailing in the perfect little world of West Marine advisor sailing.

Right from an OSHA manual about safety practices and broken strands...

Figure 87 Wire Rope Inspection

Up to six allowed in one rope
lay, OR three in one strand in one
rope lay, with no more than one at an attached fitting. Otherwise,
destroy and replace rope.

And if you read my post...I said not huge, UNLESS heading offshore....
I don't have access to the OSHA manual to check this out, but I bet that they are referring to multi strand flexible wire rope, not 1x19. The idea that up to six strands out of 19 failing is OK doesn't make sense.

Now, back to the OP... I don't know how boats are used in the far north, but quite possibly they are removed from the water each winter, so ageing of the rigging due to cyclic loading is markedly reduced. Further, cold northern water is reputed to corrode the rigging less than warm tropical water. So, I suspect that his rig might well be good to go after all.

None the less, new wire is a lot cheaper than a new mast, and a conservative sailor will consider this carefully.

Cheers,
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2011, 08:12   #19
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,831
Re: To replace rigging or not (yet)... that is the question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I don't have access to the OSHA manual to check this out, but I bet that they are referring to multi strand flexible wire rope, not 1x19. The idea that up to six strands out of 19 failing is OK doesn't make sense.

Now, back to the OP... I don't know how boats are used in the far north, but quite possibly they are removed from the water each winter, so ageing of the rigging due to cyclic loading is markedly reduced. Further, cold northern water is reputed to corrode the rigging less than warm tropical water. So, I suspect that his rig might well be good to go after all.

None the less, new wire is a lot cheaper than a new mast, and a conservative sailor will consider this carefully.

Cheers,
I agree...offshore or extended cruising should start at 100 percent designed (of more if you have the means), not a lesser safety factor.

All I was pointing out was that safe working loads versus full strength are 2 different things and that a broken wire or 2 is not good but not the end of the world. I've had standing rigging fail and upon further inspection found more broken strands. I'll bet a huge number of boats out there have broken strands for years and the owners never know it. The rigging just doesn't fail the moment a strand breaks.

All that being said...yes... replace....expecially if the rigging is down and you are starting off on blue water runs.
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2011, 20:58   #20
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
Images: 91
Re: To Replace Rigging or Not ( Yet )

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris smith View Post
Edited for technical accuracy ....I have 450 square feet of canvas in my main and genoa.When the wind is up to 25knts and more and i still have all my canvas up...the thought of my 8 year old forestay's integrity does cross my mind.At 55 knts , its all over
The point I was making was that, if you go offshore regularly enough, there will come a time when, unexpectedly, you have way too much canvas up for the conditions that have suddently materialised. We all like to think that we are good at downsizing sails / reefing, etc. but sooner or later (probably at night, when we are tired and its real dark), we will be hit by a squallt that we didn't see coming.

For me it was 65+ knots with around 550 square feet of sail up (i.e. waaaaay too much) and we managed to keep the mast in the boat, and get the sails down without destroying them (we did "wash" the masthead gear though)... but we were lucky, I guess.

As many have alluded to... its all about the "sleep at night" factor...
__________________
Weyalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2011, 23:10   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bundaberg, Australia
Boat: 57ft Steel Expedition Vessel
Posts: 173
Re: To Replace Rigging or Not (Yet)

My mast is coming off in 32hrs so I can keep it sticking upright for the next few years without stressing!

Interesting how I just happened to find this thread the day before.
__________________
Dame.n.Jess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-04-2011, 21:59   #22
Registered User
 
rhumbunctious's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 68
Re: To Replace Rigging or Not (Yet)

Just to followup and say that I've decided to go ahead and replace all the rigging. Budget will be rather tight for a bit, but I'm sure I'll sleep better...

Thanks to everyone for their valuable input.
__________________

__________________
If a man speaks at sea where there is no woman to hear, is he still wrong?
-
Cruising the Baltic in 'Merihiisi', a 1979 Westerly Berwick Ketch
rhumbunctious is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rigging

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re: Rigging, Compression Fittings for Standing Rigging Maineiac_sailor Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 26-01-2011 08:30
Replace or Repair Standing Rigging? joburnet Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 20 20-03-2010 21:02
Have Decided to Replace Bent Rigging Alton Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 11-09-2009 22:13
Replace Catalac standing rigging - Cost? sailorgal Multihull Sailboats 7 27-09-2008 23:15
Need to Replace Gauges! stoupidmonkey Engines and Propulsion Systems 16 31-10-2007 08:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.