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Old 06-09-2017, 08:32   #16
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

If you determine you need to replace Genoa contact Hyde Sails Direct. They just replaced my 155 Genoa, best price with excellent service and product. Ask for Judy! Google "Hyde Sails Direct"!
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Old 06-09-2017, 08:40   #17
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
When were you thinking of order this new sail? because in about a week every US sail maker is going to be rather busy for the rest of the year. You have had one hurricane, another one just about to flatten most of Florida and the third building as a TS out in the Atlantic.

Will there still be any big winter discounts available this year after hurricane season?

Pete
Good point...
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:07   #18
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Originally Posted by John_Trusty View Post
Difficult to tell off-wind. Any sail, or a barn door for that matter, works effectively dead downwind - it's just projected area. The shape that you are paying for, and what is lost due to stretch, is the wing shape when it is strapped-in going to weather.
Gee those current fleet Americas Cup "yachts" would not agree with your barn door idea. Just kidding.
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:21   #19
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

Halyard definetly needs more tension from the wrinkles in the luff. Tightening the halyard will also tighten the leach since more tension puts more load on the leach (if lead doesn't change).

Also want to move lead forward as you start reaching.

If the material is holding up probably don't need a new jib unless you want the extra speed that you get from goid sail shape. With dacron that won't last very long though.

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Old 06-09-2017, 15:23   #20
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

The leech of the genny looks pretty blown out in the reaching shot you posted. You may not be able to fix it by playing with tensions.
Things to do:
Tighten the headstay until there are a few inches of sag when upwind.
Move the jib tack block forward to try to straighten the leech. If you get to the point where the lower half of the leech looks smooth and straight but the upper half falls off to leeward and flutters, the sail is really tired.
Things not to do:
Don't tighten the jib luff tension (jib halyard) so that the cloth just aft of the luff is twisted to windward (inverted). The halyard should be eased just enough so the sail flows smoothly from the luff.
Don't over tighten the leech cord (assuming you have one) so that the aft part of the jib hooks badly.
Don't spend money on having a sailmaker trying to recut the sail. Put the money on a new sail. There are a number of mail order houses with good reviews who specialize in cruising sails.
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Old 06-09-2017, 16:33   #21
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

Tune the rig & the sail for upwind, & then take some pics from laying on your back, looking up the draft of the sail. Both from just aft of the headstay, & at the belly of the sail. As we need to get a sense of what the draft position & shape are like, when tuned for windward work, that the sail is in.

One other clue is how soft the cloth is, & what kind of shape the stitching is in. As if the sail is soft, almost like a bed sheet, it's probably shot. Ditto if it won't hold new sewing & patches well due to tears forming from the sewing, or stress risers created by patches. Particularly if a possible recut is in the cards.

There are "cheater" fixes, in terms of repairs. Such as using contact cement, or 5200 Fast Cure. But they're not likely to help with shape much.

One other thing to watch, & to take pics of, is how much the draft migrates aft as the wind builds. At various intervals from 4kts to 20kts+/- Ditto on how much deeper the draft's belly becomes when undergoing the same test/evaluation.
And if in 20kts you're worried about the sail self destructing, then it's DOA. Time to repurpose the fabric for other things. Which is a decent idea with most sails.

As stated by another poster in this thread, racers tend to swap out sails fairly often. So given that, they can be a decent source of used sails which have a modicum of life left in them. Though many will be laminates, often without taffeta scrim on either side, thus making them more delicate. And once their shape is gone, odds are they're done, period.

The reality though, based on the current pics, your description of the sail, & that you're asking this question, is that it's time for a new sail. And when you're deciding what to replace it with, ponder heavily on; what feaatures you'd like it to have, what size sail will best serve you, what wind ranges you want it & your sail plan optimized for, what fabric(s) will serve you best, ditto on the cut of the sail (sail cut type), etc.

Plus, high quality sails almost always last much, much longer than cheap sails. Both in terms of keeping their original shape, & regarding their ability to be tuned up once or thrice as they age.
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Old 06-09-2017, 17:07   #22
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

One of the best purchases I've made are adjustable genoa blocks from Garhauer. It's amazing how adjusting those blocks can improve genoa shape and performance.
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Old 06-09-2017, 17:30   #23
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

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Originally Posted by silversailor View Post
It's amazing how adjusting those blocks can improve genoa shape and performance.

Bingo!! That's why the blocks are on tracks. Whether towable leads or pin stop leads, if they're in the wrong spot, your sail shape will be off and leach flutter will make you feel as though helicopters are following you everywhere!!
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Old 06-09-2017, 17:40   #24
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

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Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
Have the same problem with my genoa. No matter how far the cars are moved forward, the leach is always loose unless I sheet it so it's basically touching the deck.

So sheet it so it's basically touching the deck. Problem solved.

Was the genoa designed to be a "deck sweeper"? Many are.
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Old 06-09-2017, 17:42   #25
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

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Gee those current fleet Americas Cup "yachts" would not agree with your barn door idea. Just kidding.
That's 'cause they never sail anywhere near DDW (apparent).
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Old 07-09-2017, 04:56   #26
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

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So sheet it so it's basically touching the deck. Problem solved.

Was the genoa designed to be a "deck sweeper"? Many are.
Yeah, it's 36m2 the original should be closer to 29m2. But I have a cutter rig, so really this should be a yankee, or at least have a high clew.

Anyway, don't want to distract from the OPs thread. Will be interested to see what the outcome is.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:02   #27
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

Uncivilized thunderhoof and moontide thanks very much for the informative posts. I wont be sailing again until next week so pics won't be possible until then, but I intend to adjust the rig and see how I can get the sail to shape better.

Basically I'm looking at $2k for a Dacron cruising sail, $2.5k for a high end Dacron, and 3k for a performance cruise laminate. I'm curious to know if the performance difference going up to the cruise laminate is worth 50% more $.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:09   #28
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

My sailmaker has advised against a laminate. He's not convinced of there being no problems with meldew on a long term cruising boat.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:49   #29
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

Also, try raising the entire sail, even a few inches will make quite a difference to the leach. Is there any room to raise the head or is the top furler swivel tight up against the top of the foil? Can the halyard pull up any more, even use a shorter shackle?
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:20   #30
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Re: Time to replace genoa?

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Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
Uncivilized thunderhoof and moontide thanks very much for the informative posts. I wont be sailing again until next week so pics won't be possible until then, but I intend to adjust the rig and see how I can get the sail to shape better.

Basically I'm looking at $2k for a Dacron cruising sail, $2.5k for a high end Dacron, and 3k for a performance cruise laminate. I'm curious to know if the performance difference going up to the cruise laminate is worth 50% more $.
Your money, your choice!

In my humble opinion -- others will have different ones -- the $500 extra for laminate will be the best $500 you ever spent on your boat.

Dacron is a woven cloth with a crimp in it -- the threads go up and down over and under threads going in the other direction. This construction MUST stretch. Dacron sailcloth has resin in it to slow down this process, but this is just resin -- gets knocked out from flogging or simply folding the sail.

The main structural part of laminate sails is a mylar membrane which has no crimp, no structure not aligned with the load. It will eventually blow up, but it won't stretch. So during its whole life, it will be a wing.

MY sailmaker said the latest generation of laminates are autoclaved and much more resistant to delamination and mildew. Mine are still more or less like new after four years and around 15,000 miles.

If you care about the shape of your sails, if you want them to be WINGS, and not bags, then in my opinion, laminate is the only way to go.
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