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Old 14-08-2014, 09:40   #1
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Tight Wraps/Big Winds

How do you furl a headsail in strong winds to avoid the resultant tight wrap on the headstay? Is this even possible?
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Old 14-08-2014, 09:45   #2
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

Why worry about it, as long as you get it furled. Your furling line should be long enough to get 4+ wraps around the sail when it is completely furled and if its a super tight furl you will not have any wraps left but it will be furled.
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Old 14-08-2014, 10:01   #3
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Why worry about it, as long as you get it furled. Your furling line should be long enough to get 4+ wraps around the sail when it is completely furled and if its a super tight furl you will not have any wraps left but it will be furled.

Robert,
Implicit with the tight wrap is a difficult furl with a wildly flogging sail. This is not fun at night, in lumpy seas(or even during daylight) in limited visibility and has the potential for damage, obstruction , and the necessity to unfurl and rewrap. I'm wondering if others have a better solution to the problem other than a "tug and pull" approach? Thanks for the reply.
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Old 14-08-2014, 10:06   #4
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

What is the problem with a tight wrap?
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Old 14-08-2014, 10:13   #5
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

I also don't see the problem with a tight wrap. It has less windage and doesn't allow the wind to get in between wraps opening up the wraps making parts even looser.

You're describing two different damage cases. One is the tight wrap itself, which I don't see how it is damaging anything. The other is damage due to flogging while furling. In that case turn downwind, you reduce apparent windspeed and hide the jib behind the main, both reducing load and flogging.

In my case since the UV protection strip is almost too small I sometimes have to re-furl while pulling on the sheet to get a tight enough wrap to not have exposed sail.
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Old 14-08-2014, 10:53   #6
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

I would think a tight, multiple wrap was desirable, although if it's really blowing (like steadily past 30-35 knots), I would argue removing the furling sail from the foil is the way to go. Yes, it's a lot of work until you've experienced the damage and effort it takes to deal with an unfurled yankee or genoa in a blow.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:09   #7
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

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Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
What is the problem with a tight wrap?
Vasco,
I have a Harken furler that was rebuilt last year and works well in most conditions. However, when the wind is (20 plus), the furler occasionally binds and I have to release the furling sheet and rewrap. In regards to CalJohn's advice to run downwind using the main as a wind shield, the cupping effect created on the 130 genoa coupled with the strength of the wind makes it more difficult to furl on my boat. The only technique I have found to work acceptably in strong conditions is to take in small bits ,rather than one contiunous pull, with slight tension applied to the leeward jib sheet. This difficulty, as mentioned before, is exacerbated in lumpy conditions since the foil, although under proper tension, also moves in conjuction with wind and seas. Make sense?
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:13   #8
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
How do you furl a headsail in strong winds to avoid the resultant tight wrap on the headstay? Is this even possible?
Head off on a deep reach to furl. Easier too.

I agree nothing wrong with a tight furl, in and of itself.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:15   #9
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

Rognvald,

I have a 26 year old Harken unit (#02) on my CS36M never been rebuilt or anything, seen lots of salt water but have yet to have a problem with it. The only maintenance is the occasional fresh water rinse of the drum. If yours is binding it's either not a full hoist (halyard wrap) or too much halyard tension or some of the Torlon bearings are flat.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:16   #10
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

In high winds to reduce load I have the sheets loose. I think you are un-necessarily loading up the furler making it harder to furl. I can furl much quicker, and so flogging is very short. I have a Harken as well.

From the manual:
http://www.harken.com/uploadedfiles/...t/pdf/4417.pdf
Furl and Reef
To furl or reef, ease the jib sheets and pull
furling line.
In very light air, it may be necessary to place
some tension on jib sheet to insure a tight furl.
In a breeze, you must completely luff sail by
totally slacking jib sheets before furling.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:18   #11
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Head off on a deep reach to furl. Easier too.

I agree nothing wrong with a tight furl, in and of itself.
Suijin,
Perhaps I haven't been clear, but the problem with the tight wrap is that is causes the furling unit to bind at times necessitating a release of the furling line and a rewrap. The conditions and complications are stated above.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:25   #12
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Suijin,
Perhaps I haven't been clear, but the problem with the tight wrap is that is causes the furling unit to bind at times necessitating a release of the furling line and a rewrap. The conditions and complications are stated above.
It's not the tight wrap that's your problem, it's either pulling on the sheet while furling, or halyard wrap, or too tight halyard, or too loose forestay. All these are described in the manual.

I have also had the foil slip down in the drum and bind on the non-moving parts.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:28   #13
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Suijin,
Perhaps I haven't been clear, but the problem with the tight wrap is that is causes the furling unit to bind at times necessitating a release of the furling line and a rewrap. The conditions and complications are stated above.
No you were clear, I just did not see your post right before mine, lol.

If the furling line is binding, consider going to a larger diameter line, if the drum will take it. If not your drum might be undersized for your big genoa.

I would also suggest that you might not be reefing early enough. If you're starting to furl your 135 in 20 knots, that's going to be difficult no matter what the gear.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:44   #14
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
It's not the tight wrap that's your problem, it's either pulling on the sheet while furling, or halyard wrap, or too tight halyard, or too loose forestay. All these are described in the manual.

I have also had the foil slip down in the drum and bind on the non-moving parts.
John,
Your responses and Vasco's were what I was looking for as a solution. I do not have excessive forestay sag nor a halyard wrap, but I'm going to check the tightness of the halyard tension tomorrow. It is also possible that the tension I create on the jib sheet while furling may also be an issue. I have done this in the past in these conditions to prevent unnecessary and uncontrollable flogging of the headsail and wildly undulating jib sheets with the propensity to catch on anything/everything on the cabin top and foredeck--causing damage and/or mayhem . As stated previously, there is also the concern of having to release, then refurl the headsail. Again, this usually occurs in strong conditions.
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:51   #15
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Re: Tight Wraps/Big Winds

My dear man, if you have any sheet tension when you are trying to furl in any sort of a blow you will need arms like a gorilla!!
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