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Old 11-02-2016, 21:59   #91
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
. Boat often was a good 90 degrees off the horizontal going down their fronts. They were really long waves. We guessed the length at about half mile or more.
So you are plunging vertically down the face of quarter mile wave front?
What was your terminally velocity when you hit the bottom (to the nearest 50 knots )

Or do you mean you were sideways on to the wave and semi-inverted?
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Old 11-02-2016, 22:01   #92
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
So you are plunging vertically down the face of quarter mile wave front?
What was your terminally velocity when you hit the bottom (to the nearest 50 knots )

Or do you mean you were sideways on to the wave and semi-inverted?
ROFL
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Old 11-02-2016, 22:06   #93
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Boat often was a good 90 degrees off the horizontal going down their fronts.
ha reminds me about the joke about bulk carriers being prone to 90 degree course changes, 90 degrees down, when they snap in half.
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Old 11-02-2016, 22:48   #94
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

Perhaps a detail or two may be off, but I love the 90 degree image!
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Old 12-02-2016, 06:43   #95
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

[QUOTE=StuM;2043417]So you are plunging vertically down the face of quarter mile wave front?
What was your terminally velocity when you hit the bottom (to the nearest 50 knots )

Or do you mean you were sideways on to the wave and semi-inverted?[/QUOT

Essentially. As i said, we were literally surfing down the wave. Our knotmeter hit 15 knots at one point. In the Southern Ocean, the monsters are quite far apart. You can see them loom up in the distance, which we estimated to be a quarter to half mile from us. There are lots of wave actions in that part of the world but the big monsters that range around the world tend to have a large period between them. The other problem is the meeting of counter currents off the Cape which tend to "trip" or slow down these moving mountains so they gain a very steep face. Lots of ships have gone down in those waters due to that reality. And yes, we have fallen off a wave front. Not sure one would call that moving except downwards. At that point you learn how well your bulkheads are attached to the hull.
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Old 12-02-2016, 06:48   #96
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
So you are plunging vertically down the face of quarter mile wave front?
What was your terminally velocity when you hit the bottom (to the nearest 50 knots )

Or do you mean you were sideways on to the wave and semi-inverted?
Sometime go look at some of the 60 footers that occasionally hit Sunset Beach in the north shore of Oahu. That will give you some idea what we are talking about. Because there is no shore break in the Southern ocean, the big waves tend not to break into curlers, although the top 10 or so feet do. And like the big wave surfers going down the front of a 60 footer, our tub did likewise. That is why you experience a "lift" to the boat.
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Old 12-02-2016, 13:46   #97
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Hi Mike,

On our last boat (a sloop) I only ever rigged the tri-sail once in real use, and that was when we were expecting a few days of high winds during an open ocean passage to the Caribean (hurricane Olga 2001). I did use the storm jib more frequently.

You mentioned Ketch in a previous post. Is your current boat a ketch ?
If so, do you have a reef in your mizzen as well ?

I am actually preparing to do the same route as you this summer on our new boat, a ketch with small mizzen. We plan to meander down the St.Lawrence, and see a bit of the east coast, ending up in Halifax by fall then on to the Caribbean.

I don't have a tri-sail on this boat. I had my new main made with two deep reefs, so the second is the same as you might expect a third to be. We also have a reef in our mizzen that makes it match our hanked on stay-sail. All the sails are fairly heavy cloth.

In my opinion you don't need a tri-sail for this trip. You have lots of options with your ketch(?). Also, motoring is a valid storm tactic, especially on this trip where you will be docking most nights and able to refuel.

Perhaps we will cross paths along the way.

Cheers,
JM.
Thanks JM. Maybe we will cross wakes. We leave from the eastern end of Lake Ontario (Belleville) probably sometime in June. We're aiming for NFLD (Lewisporte), and I want to spend time up the Saguenay and probably Quebec City as well.

Our current boat is a cutter. Our previous boat was the ketch (which I loved). We have one deep reef on the mizzen sail, and three on the main. Foresail was on a furler. As I said, we never went to third reef on the ketch. Rarely went to second. In those conditions we usually just ran jib & jigger (occasionally reefed mizzen). Worked great.

I appreciate all the comments re: trysail (and sorry for the light hijack). I'm confident our deep 3rd reef will do the trick for now.
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Old 13-02-2016, 23:09   #98
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

Blowing pretty hard here, and it got me thinking. A big plus to having a deep third reef is peace of mind. When you're down too the second slogging away you know you still have and ace up your sleeve. Doesn't matter if it doesn't get used often, just having that looking up at that little scrap of bulletproof sail sitting above the third reef is somehow very comforting.

Also it's much easier to pull in a third reef sometimes than to drop the main entirely. As long as the headboard stays above the lower spreaders it becomes a much easier job to shake out the reef than it is to reset the whole main, especially if running.

Had an instance during the delivery when I really needed a fourth reef, the third not being deep enough. Had to drop the main. Ended up lying a hull for the night, when given a nice deep trysail reef I would have been able to punch into a nice sheltered bay. Engine was not working, so I had to rely on the rags.

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Old 22-02-2016, 21:14   #99
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

Last month I was wondering the same thing about a 3rd reef and a storm sail on a small 25' Yamaha sailing from Okinawa to Taiwan. I added the 3rd reef and bought a storm sail thinking I would never use either, but 48 hours into the trip the wind hit about 30 knots and the seas to 3 meters and I was quite happy I spent the $600 USD. The tiller auto pitot handle the job with no problem.
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Old 22-02-2016, 22:03   #100
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Last month I was wondering the same thing about a 3rd reef and a storm sail on a small 25' Yamaha sailing from Okinawa to Taiwan. I added the 3rd reef and bought a storm sail thinking I would never use either, but 48 hours into the trip the wind hit about 30 knots and the seas to 3 meters and I was quite happy I spent the $600 USD. The tiller auto pitot handle the job with no problem.
Glad to hear it helped you out.
I think that's the thing people forget is that the deep third reef helps a lot even when it's not a full Gale or storm.

At sea in rough water your power to carry sail comfortably is so much less than in flat water.

So in 30 knots flat water you'd maybe have been ok with two reefs, or maybe just a headsail. but in rough water you end up going to fast, rolling too deep, or unbalanced with poor course keeping.

life at sea is just so much more comfortable with the right amount of sail balanced properly.

Thanks for the good example.
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Old 22-02-2016, 22:16   #101
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

If you have a storm tri-sail then you don't need a 3rd reef.
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