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Old 10-02-2016, 16:08   #61
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

depends on your main size I love mine balances the boat painful sailing with only jib downwind in strong winds
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Old 10-02-2016, 16:17   #62
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

Somewhere in my memory banks I recall it said that a trysail is really only useful for heaving to, (I suppose because it will give more weather helm than a reefed main?) Anyone else found that? But after reading your account Storm, it sounds like you can get perfectly good drive out of it too. Thanks Ann for the tip too, yeah I am not going to get rid of it, in fact I am a sail hoarder. Were I to be planning to head out, I think I'd do as you say, keep it rigged and bagged. I'd probably also go with twin headstays and put on an inner forestay with a storm jib rigged and bagged there too! (That's another thread) With a smaller boat though, as you know, I have narrower bands of wind speeds to work with. When big boats have their third reef in and the storm jib up, I'll probably be dragging the drogues or have the sea anchor out and I'll be having the hot chocolate. But it's all down the line, I can still run home to safety where I am now!

Oops, on re-reading I see you mentioned that, Jim, about the trysail for heaving to. As Roseanne Rossannadanna says: Never mind.
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Old 10-02-2016, 16:24   #63
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pirate Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Yippeee, we agree on something! Cheers Boatman.


Saude..
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Old 10-02-2016, 16:39   #64
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

Gota agree with everyone who said you should have a third reef. The winds in the gulf can be brutal and there just aren't many ports to duck into. Lots cliffs and rock, winds 50+ knots not unusual.
Fished for a while in my younger days off the west coast of Newfoundland and seen it go from this is nice to Holy ***K in less than an hour.
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Old 10-02-2016, 16:42   #65
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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I would say that the 3rd reef is a must, the first is debatable... I have never used it.
Exactly! Try your third when you get it and see how well the boat sails. My boat charges along with just a bit of main left up and half the head sail
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Old 10-02-2016, 16:50   #66
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

Since I started this thread I want to thank everyone for their help Just dropped my main off at KSL and having the third reef put in. There were some great responses
Thanks all
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Old 10-02-2016, 16:50   #67
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

"3rd reef!? Yes/No
In a cutter, with a staysail, i do not think it really necessary."

Wow, talk about inexperience. You need some rag on the main to balance the rig if your going to have the staysail up. Same with being hoved to. Ultimately, in a real storm you will need to take down the staysail and continue under whatever storm sail you have on the main. Guess you never been caught in a storm.
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Old 10-02-2016, 17:12   #68
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

To reed1V
Not all of us have experience that's why I posted the thread some of us want to get out there and gain that experience if we ask for help to make it safer while out there isn't that what this forum is for. And yes I have been caught in a storm water spout 90kn winds layed over 3 times to port spun 360 and 2 on starboard scared the hell out of me just trying to learn
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Old 10-02-2016, 17:15   #69
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

An old and often raised question in many sailing forums and other places of less repute. It is up to the owner (to acquire it or not) or captain (to sail without it or not) but there is no harm to having it (except maybe the budget and slight efficiency impairment under a few conditions) and there can be major harm in needing it but not having it, the lest of which is the stress that occurs when it appears you might need it soon, but you so not have it. Nonetheless, it is your choice, in particular since there alternatives up to and including the type of rig (would you be one of the sailors who prefers a junk rig to a reefed trysail?).
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Old 10-02-2016, 18:59   #70
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

Ocean sailing....a third reef is a must! Flat and simple.
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Old 10-02-2016, 19:35   #71
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Way I figure it... rather have a 3rd reef I never use than wish I had one when needed..
Its not like its sitting mouldering in a locker taking up space.. or kilo's of useless weight..
Boatman has it right as usual...makes a great storm sail when needed when she is honkin'. Phil
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Old 11-02-2016, 00:23   #72
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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poor explanation by me. on that boat the reef lines were outside of the boom, when putting in reef #2 I untied #1 clew line, tied it to the messenger line and pulled it up into #3 reef position. The tack cringles had ring that went onto 'horns at the boom inner end. On that boat reefing was still done at the mast, later I had a bigger boat with 2 line reefing all from the cockpit and all three lines were permanently rove ready for use, in this case all reef lines were inside the boom. We also had a small 'flattening' (4th)reef but this was handled at the mast and only used for ultimate upwind performance, generally when racing and used after a long downwind leg turned back upwind. When cruising ( always just 2 of us) the flattener reef tack end cringle was used as a Cunningham to fully tension the full hoist mainsail and the clew end when cruising went on the outhsaul line for controlling the foot tension of the loose footed main. We had a large area mainsail in high tech Hydranet cloth with full length battens on a roller bearing car mast track system.

I hope this is clearer than it sounds to me reading it back!

Yes, thanks, a lot clearer now and helpful. :-)
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:16   #73
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

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To reed1V
Not all of us have experience that's why I posted the thread some of us want to get out there and gain that experience if we ask for help to make it safer while out there isn't that what this forum is for. And yes I have been caught in a storm water spout 90kn winds layed over 3 times to port spun 360 and 2 on starboard scared the hell out of me just trying to learn
Fair enough. So why make pronouncements when you do not know? A cutter rig does not relieve one of having a mainsail up. Now in a ketch or yawl, you can go jib and jigger, which actually is more stable. A small staysail and a reefed mizzen(yes you can put reef points into mizzens) will take you through really high winds. Was Sir Francis's favorite combination going through the roaring forties and furious fifties.
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:28   #74
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pirate Re: Third reef is it really needed

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Fair enough. So why make pronouncements when you do not know? A cutter rig does not relieve one of having a mainsail up. Now in a ketch or yawl, you can go jib and jigger, which actually is more stable. A small staysail and a reefed mizzen(yes you can put reef points into mizzens) will take you through really high winds. Was Sir Francis's favorite combination going through the roaring forties and furious fifties.
I don't know.. done a fair bit of mileage with just the Genny and self tacking staysail.. not down wind obviously but beam fwd.. my H37c would scoot along just fine and point as high as a bilge keeler..
But then I'm never in a real hurry..
Admire the boats flying by with all sail set.. lovely sight, flying spray.. quivering rigging.. awesome...
But how can you envy someone when your first thought is.. 'They're in a rush..!!'
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:48   #75
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Re: Third reef is it really needed

Acquiring a severe case of reef envy here
I don't even have a second reef; let alone a third! Tho, I must say , my first (only?) reef is seemingly deep....say a one-and a half?at near to 20%.
Guess I hafta make a trip to a loft soonish anyway?
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