The Volvo Boats Paint Sails--What do They Use?

[thinwater]

This, from another CF thread:


The Volvo Ocean Race boats, Volvo 65, all have painted sails.
The sails not in current use are rolled up and bagged on deck. Paint wear out does not seem to have been an issue after 40,000 miles over 9 months.

Obviously it works and does not degrade the sails. On the other thread, someone was looking for a UV cover alternative. Another question that comes up is people wanting to change canvas color. Obviously, the paint may not work on woven cloth.


The possibilities seem intriguing on several levels. Is there something new out there?

[Dsanduril]

Not sure you can extrapolate from a set of racing sails that don't even last one race to a set of cruising sails that most of us want to last years (or even decades):

“Most boats made it to Itajai on their first set of sails. This is unheard of.” said Nathan Quirk, Sail Loft Manager in the Volvo Ocean Race Boatyard, in reference to the 2014-15 race. “3Di can be maintained and repaired easily with confidence. Hard to imagine doing this with string sails.”

North makes all the VOR sails and touts that "most boats" made 3/4 of the race on the first set.

And then it appears that the paint is more about branding than about protection of the sails:

The yellow hue of the Force sails comes from the combination of UltraPE filaments (which are translucent, white) and Aramid filaments (which are gold). To keep the weight as low as possible, the A3 sails have very little branding so they show their true colors. All of the other sails in the Volvo Ocean Race 65 inventory are fully branded which masks the color of the sail structure. We are especially proud of the work done by the North Graphics team for this edition of the VOR. Our team painted 130 VOR sails over the course of just 6 months. We think the sails all look fantastic with the teams’ colors and logos.

The VOR sails don't need UV protection from the paint because they are fully expected to be thrown out by the end of the race if not sooner.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Not sure you can extrapolate from a set of racing sails that don't even last one race to a set of cruising sails that most of us want to last years (or even decades):

North makes all the VOR sails and touts that "most boats" made 3/4 of the race on the first set.

And then it appears that the paint is more about branding than about protection of the sails:

The VOR sails don't need UV protection from the paint because they are fully expected to be thrown out by the end of the race if not sooner.

First, it was just an example.


Second, those sails see more use and more UV than many cruisers see in years. The reasons they fail have nothing to do with the paint. So saying that it is "one race" is also a false comparison, when over the course of that race they move 5-10 times farther than most boats EVER will. I could have used the example of house paint lasting as much as 30 years, but that would also be false.

---
So before we shoot down a concept, let's investigated it. I'm pretty sure the paint would last at least a few years on a mom-and-pop boat, and I often see UV covers failing in 4-6 years. So perhaps, the comparison is fair, just different.


"Just one race." A very long race.

[estarzinger]

^^ Thin, North did not recommend the paint approach for us. They said it created the best sail shape and was lightest . . . but needed regular touching up (you would have to drop jib and spread out and paint spots and let dry every couple months).

I used to know exactly what they used, but don't think I have it anymore - was a urethane I believe.

They also have paint for storm sails (international orange and other bright colors) and paint for branding on sails.

[Dsanduril]

Apologies, wasn't trying to shoot down the concept, just trying to point out that VOR's use case is different. Sure, they have a paint that sticks to their 3D laminate sails, but they're really using it for branding rather than UV protection (as witnessed by their distinction between sails that get fully covered with branding vs. sails that only get slight branding). Since their use case is different the requirements for the paint are also different. They want it to stick to the sails, provide vibrant colors, and carry a sponsor's message. Any UV protection is secondary because those sails will not get used on the next race.

So, I don't think you can extrapolate from VOR to cruising where we want UV protection. However, I'm actually interested in the overall concept which is why I joined the thread. One thing I could see is painting the whole sail (as VOR does for branding) to get me UV protection when the sail is up. For our main, for instance, the only time it really gets UV exposure is when sailing.

The second question, which I think came up on the other thread is whether the UV protection is good enough for the leach of a furling sail, which gets well more than 90% of the UV on most boats because it sits there rolled up all the time? I'd love to hear someone post here with experience and/or technical data on UV protection used in that scenario.

[model 10]

We have been painting fabric aircraft for a 100 something years. It's not that big of a deal. Some fabric surfaces do 450 mph.

[Kestrahl]

You mite want to look here Marine Shield

From what I've heard it isn't all that good and your better of sticking to the Sunbrella or other UV material. The Volvo sails aren't subjected to that much UV compared to a long distance cruiser. They also look good from a distance but we rarely see close ups.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

... The Volvo sails aren't subjected to that much UV compared to a long distance cruiser....

I keep hearing this, but they are also materials that are inherently more sensitive to UV. Thus, I'm not at all sure it is a true statement.


I've used Sunbrella covers many times. I know the pluses and the minuses. They are usually the right answer, but they may not always be the right answer. For example, sewing a cover on a laminate sail is a great way to start a tear parallel to the leach unless extra reinforcement is added. I've seen this a number of times. I wonder if re-painting, even frequently, might be better.


We were all convinced high modulus rope was a mistake when Kevlar started failing, and then Dyneema came along. Just sayin', you can't stop looking.

[Kestrahl]

They spent 126 days racing, quite a lot of that was in the deep south or north where UV isn't as great, the sails are made from polyster resin, aramid and dyneema. A good dacron sail will last 50,000 miles at about 6-7 knots speed and the UV cover will be in the sun for 5-10 years or more.
Most dacron's aren't as long lasting as they used to be when most companies were using Dupoint yarns instead of yarns from China. But a sail made from good dacron won't have the vertical tearing problem along the UV cover inside edge.
Not saying paint on UV covers are ruled out, just saying some sailmakers are trying it but the results so far haven't been that great from what I have heard from other friends in the industry. It is also an advantage for sailmakers in the west as it is less material cost and labor, but not if they come back.

[qwert]

Years ago I used to make fabric banners. After quite a bit of experimenting we ended up using a water based acrylic from a local company 'Viponds'. It was sold as "acrylic banner paint" and we painted it straight on to nylon, polyester and vinyl. On some fabrics there was a nonslip residue from the manufacturing process which we washed off with a quick scrub of ajax but dacron didn't need this. The fabrics were usually calendered. Mylar and other laminates were not used.



When we needed adhesive letters we rubbed the paint onto stickyback with a rag, this gave an absolutely uniform colour and lasted forever.


Not sure about aircraft paint as the surface doesn't flex although an aluminium pigment would be hard to beat for UV.

[Fine Tolerance]

Around 2000 ORC Cat 0 made it mandatory to have orange storm sails however those with existing white sails could compete if they had a 1 sq meter of orange on the sail. We used a standard paint that they used for banners. The heavy dacron storm stay sail we painted with a 1.5m (5ft)circle did at least 100 days hoisted, plus another 200 days hanked on for quick deployment and lashed along the deck during the following 5 years of sailing. The photo shows it after sailing 3 years sailing from 40 deg south to 70 deg north without any touch up or nursing. I do not know the paints UV value but seeing as it is specifically used for banners would, I imagine, be good. Take what you want from this but that is my personal experience of paint on a sail.

[a64pilot]

As has been brought up a few times, aircraft fabric is painted.
However as one person alluded to, its first painted with silver for UV protection, acid test is to look inside of the aircraft with it out in the sun, if you see pin holes of light, there isn’t enough silver.
There is a significant amount of paint or dope on aircraft fabric (weight), to get the needed UV protection.
I don’t see the advantage over sunbrella?
I have seen at least one budget cruiser that had painted his sails, sails a small Boat named Enterprise and cruises with his daughters if he happens to be on the forum. It seemed to work, but appearance wise left a little to be desired on say a Boat someone spends hours on brightwork.