Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-05-2018, 18:05   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: San Blas, Panama
Boat: Albin Vega 27
Posts: 358
T-ball the mast while up?

It's finally come time to install my solent stay on my Albin Vega. I have all the components onboard, but I've been putting the project off as it involves cutting a hole in the mast while aloft, which doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

When I was brainstorming ways to attach the inner stay to the mast, the best option I could find (at the time) was to use a T-ball and associated backing plate. The nice thing about this method is that it only involves rivets and epoxy, and no through-mast bolts. The downside is that it leaves an opening in my mast for rain water to intrude, and find its way down into the boat.

Unstepping the mast would be the best way to do the install, but it probably isn't going to be an option right now.

Anyone have experience doing such a fun rigging install while aloft?
__________________

__________________
Sailing S/V Tarka for Coral Reefs.
www.theadventuresoftarka.com
Ryban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2018, 18:16   #2
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,964
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

This isn't too different to driilling holes for a radar or like. Shouldn't be too hard. Just don't drop that backing plate down the guts of the mast! And I wouldn't worry about mast leaks. It will just be one more hole. If your Vega mast doesn't have water leaking in it already from the masthead, you have a very special Vega!
__________________

Reefmagnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2018, 19:55   #3
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 14,902
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Ryban, imho, no, a T-Ball is not a good way to go for a headstay. I don't even like them for our diamond struts. Jim posted a picture of one that had almost completely failed here: Norseman fittings sources? [Sitemap] - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

The back story is that it had been okay, to inspection prior to leaving for a rugged, short passage from the West coast of Tasmania to Sydney, and what he took the pic of was what he found a few days later, north of Sydney.

You're about to take off on a journey where there may be a lot of stress on your solent stay, it should be supported better, imo, and that will mean throughbolted, backing plates, tangs, and toggles.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 05:37   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 10,189
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Ive got them t-balls in my diamond rigs. Replaced them all with new last year. After seeing the Cates' pic on the other thread, Im glad I did!
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 10:46   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

I wouldn't use a T-ball for a stay. I think they are shaped to cope with a pull about 10 degrees from the mast - as a shroud would be. If you pull them out 15 or 20 degrees like a stay, you will put a much greater strain on the 90-degree bend as the fitting will bottom only on the inside of the mast fitting.
Uncle G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 11:15   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: San Blas, Panama
Boat: Albin Vega 27
Posts: 358
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Okay! Was not expecting to be talked out of the T-ball fitting in this post, but so it goes.

Can a through-bolt solution be accomplished with the mast up, though? I always thought these types of fittings required an anti-compression post, and that the only way to fit that was to get inside the mast?
__________________
Sailing S/V Tarka for Coral Reefs.
www.theadventuresoftarka.com
Ryban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 12:25   #7
Registered User
 
Dougtiff's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Rafael, Ca.
Boat: Gaff rigged Ketch[Spray]37' on deck
Posts: 300
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Being a rigger, i have made this coverson a half a dozen times, including at the time a 44 ft. sloop i owned, take a pattern of the mast at deck level, unless it's tapered, have a curved plate made of S.S., 3/16"x6" wide x10" long, with 2 lugs welded to plate, one for the wire and one for a block, drill mounting holes 2" apart, for drilling and taping, 1/4" or 3/16 rivet's, remembering it is mostly in sheer, the placement needs backup, I.E. the lowers or running back stays
Dougtiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 13:32   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: San Blas, Panama
Boat: Albin Vega 27
Posts: 358
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougtiff View Post
Being a rigger, i have made this coverson a half a dozen times, including at the time a 44 ft. sloop i owned, take a pattern of the mast at deck level, unless it's tapered, have a curved plate made of S.S., 3/16"x6" wide x10" long, with 2 lugs welded to plate, one for the wire and one for a block, drill mounting holes 2" apart, for drilling and taping, 1/4" or 3/16 rivet's, remembering it is mostly in sheer, the placement needs backup, I.E. the lowers or running back stays
I'll have to check my budget, because custom steel sounds like $$!

If I went this route, would you also glue the whole fitting to the mast in addition to the bolts/rivets? What about galvanic corrosion behind plates like these?
__________________
Sailing S/V Tarka for Coral Reefs.
www.theadventuresoftarka.com
Ryban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 14:18   #9
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 14,902
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Yes, you want to isolate the s/s from the alumin(i)um mast. Cut up tire inner tube material works well, and also those very skinny chopping "boards" about .5mm thick. Even PVC electrical tape will work. You'll also want something like duralac or anti-seize in the rivet or screw holes, too.

Dougtiff is right that you would normally need runners to back up an inner stay. However, making it into a Solent rig should keep the upper attachment so close to the back stay that perhaps you won't need them. You might send him a PM with that question. Ours is a fractional rig, and we do need runners, to get adequate forestay tension.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 14:36   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 20,861
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Just install a curved base fitting with high strength rivets. No big hole in the mast that way either.
Attached Images
 
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 15:48   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: San Blas, Panama
Boat: Albin Vega 27
Posts: 358
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Dougtiff is right that you would normally need runners to back up an inner stay. However, making it into a Solent rig should keep the upper attachment so close to the back stay that perhaps you won't need them. You might send him a PM with that question. Ours is a fractional rig, and we do need runners, to get adequate forestay tension.
Since it's masthead, I believe I'm okay if the attachment comes within 12" or so of the top of the mast. I'll have to double check this figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Just install a curved base fitting with high strength rivets. No big hole in the mast that way either.
The fitting in the picture you provided is a Wichard part, I believe? If so, the ones I've seen are much too big for my little mast. Moreover, don't they need to be installed inside the mast anyway? I thought the rivets were there to just hold it in place, and the curved plates act as a backing plate for the tang.
__________________
Sailing S/V Tarka for Coral Reefs.
www.theadventuresoftarka.com
Ryban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 15:51   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,593
Images: 69
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Ryban, imho, no, a T-Ball is not a good way to go for a headstay.

Ann
But a Solent stay is additional to the forestay. There's redundancy if it fails. And it's not going to be taking all the forestay loads.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 16:10   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 20,861
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryban View Post
Since it's masthead, I believe I'm okay if the attachment comes within 12" or so of the top of the mast. I'll have to double check this figure.



The fitting in the picture you provided is a Wichard part, I believe? If so, the ones I've seen are much too big for my little mast. Moreover, don't they need to be installed inside the mast anyway? I thought the rivets were there to just hold it in place, and the curved plates act as a backing plate for the tang.
I dont know what that one is. There are tons of them around, I'm sure there's one that will fit. The one I did years ago I modified the bend to fit perfect, in a vice and with a big crescent wrench.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2018, 17:10   #14
Sempre Avanti
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 1,519
Re: T-ball the mast while up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryban View Post
The fitting in the picture you provided is a Wichard part, I believe? If so, the ones I've seen are much too big for my little mast. Moreover, don't they need to be installed inside the mast anyway? I thought the rivets were there to just hold it in place, and the curved plates act as a backing plate for the tang.


Yacht Auriga: Adding an inner forestay - Part 5, in which Igor goes diving.
__________________

IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mast

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mast Bent While On The Hard F10 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 32 14-11-2016 06:01
Mast Stability while replacing chainplates billdre Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 31 30-10-2015 09:25
Can I Paint And Work On Mast While Still Upright And Attached To Boat? miller83 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 7 27-08-2014 14:30
Going up the mast while on the hard? marlinmike Construction, Maintenance & Refit 8 11-03-2014 06:41
Pulling Radar cable through conduit while mast is stepped Helios Marine Electronics 8 20-12-2013 15:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.