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Old 01-01-2010, 20:23   #16
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I fly my spinnaker all the time without the pole. Even do it singlehanded with my autopilot.

I take a line from the tack down to a snatch block at the stemhead, leaving about 4 feet, and use a webbing strap to secure the tack fitting to the furled genoa- works fine...

I find this works better for running in breeze- as you can sail deeper angles with apparent wind still forward of astern.

I actually wrap the sheets around the forestay, so gybing is just releasing the sail and letting it go in front of the boat and then sheet in on other side....
of course for running there is no substitute for using the pole.

To take it down I just set the autopilot with the boat sailing near downwind, and the sail just hangs limply in the lee of the main. then it snuffs really easily in the ATN sock.

I'm not a fan of blowing the tack unless you have a full racing crew and extra hands as you lose a little control over the sail.

Using the sail adds ton of speed for any point of sail with the wind abeam to astern

Have fun!
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:43   #17
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Lucio--

Something that may also work for you if you are frequently confronted with very light air is a sail known as a "Mainster". It is essentially a light air mainsail made of Spinnaker cloth (1 OZ- 1.5 Oz) that is set flying aft of the mast with a spare main halyard, clew-outhaul through the end of the boom and the tack secured at the goose-neck to the reef hook. The sail's shape can be adjusted with halyard and outhaul tension although it is intended to be set loosely vis-a-vis a spinnaker. One adjusts the angle of attack of the luff by adjusting the boom as one does with the normal mainsail (note that the boom needs be supported with a solid vang or topping lift so that it's weight is not on the sail).

There is a very good article on the sail in the current edition of Good Old Boat Magazine (see Good Old Boat - Welcome to Good Old Boat Magazine ) although I don't know whether the articles are available "on-line". You might email Karen Larsen at GOB to see if you can obtain a PDF version of the article. It's worth a read.

Happy New Year!
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:49   #18
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Thank you all guys, I'm a bit more confident now and you made me focus on some details that I had skipped. The idea of spectra is fine, but probably doesn't fit my installation & masthead, for how the end of halyard is arranged. I'll first try with some sort of sheathing, I'll think about. I'll try with this sail when weather permits, that is not earlier than april...
Yes Barnie, my boat sails upwind very well, and will do better with an MPS nilight airs, but prior to spend all that money on a real MPS I need to check whether it is worth it!
Thanks again an a warm Italian "ciao" to everybody!
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:59   #19
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Lucio--

For chafe protection of the jib halyard, you might be able to sheath the last foot or two of the haylayd with 1" Kvelar tape, siezed at the end of the haylyard and then spiral wraped. See Kevlar Tape 1 inch wide

FWIW...
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:30   #20
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I use my spinnaker without a pole all the time and love it. I have only had two times it was a problem, the first was before I got the sail sock and while I was on deck putting the Spinnaker back in the bag my friend started the boat and was going to turn the boat down wind, well sheet was in the water and I almost lost a finger.

The other time I had a problem was coming in the May Port inlet had a very big wind change due to land I had to dump the sail. I'LL tell you now it is very hard to get a wet sail out of the water.

I will tell you now there is a high risk of injury with the use of a Spinn.

I got my boat about 2 years ago and at first did not do alot of sailing I read every day watched U-Tube and then went out and tried what I had learn. To this day I have still not had any real experienced sailor for deck hands so everything I know is from talking to people,reading and try it myself.

I belive I have become somewhat good in a short time but learn more every time I go out. Over the past year I have been able to take the boat out every week or more and have made around 7 trips on the outside but all short.

I believe my point was before I got off track was one trip back to May Port I was able to make a run 9 hours with the spinnaker without ever make any ajustment to sails, man what a great day it was sailing.


Dutch
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:54   #21
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Kevlar tape assuggested by svHyLyte is a great idea. Need to find a seller here but it shouldn't be an issue. As English is not my first language, I'm not sure about what you mean by "seized": do you mean sewn? I guess sewing with nylon or poly wire the top and bottom wraps, with all those in between tightly wound around the rope, should work. Close-up condition check after dousing and prior to raising will always be a must....
As to the risks associated with kites, as per Dutch's advice, I'm well aware and consequently scared enough. I'll first try a couple times with the gear I have and if satisfied I'll get a sock to help avoiding some.
FW to everybody
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Old 04-01-2010, 14:24   #22
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I think the biggest danger of flying a kite is getting addicted to it ;-)

Dousing a kite, 99 out of 100 times, is a piece of cake (practice, practice, practice).

Unfortunately, 1 time out of 100 dousing a kite ends up in a terrible mishap.

Remember, in a puff, you cannot 'force' this sail to come down - you have to spill the wind (let the tack go, pull by the clew) or hide it from the wind (bear off, let it float behind the main or genoa), often both.

Also, never round up with a kite up, unless this is the only option (and it is almost always a bad and damaging option). If caught up, bear off - the kite downwind is a baby and will do what you ask it to do.

But once you understand how it works and you exercise, there is very little that can go wrong.

b.
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Old 17-12-2012, 20:13   #23
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Re: Symmetrical Spinnaker without Pole

I have a Whitby folkboat and ran across this picture of people sailing spinnakers without poles on International Folkboats.

Any comments on this use of a spinnaker?
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Old 18-12-2012, 12:20   #24
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Re: Symmetrical Spinnaker without Pole

The ATN Tacker works well for this application. Using a conventional kite in this fashion is really only effective for reaching. For broad reaching and running, use a pole. A conventional spinnaker on a pole is the most powerful downwind solution. It's not for everybody since many of today's cruisers don't have experience with poles or desire to start using them. On larger boats like ours, using two poles simplifies things a bit so you don't have to jibe the pole.
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Old 18-12-2012, 12:39   #25
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Re: Symmetrical Spinnaker without Pole

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Originally Posted by willyd View Post
I have a Whitby folkboat and ran across this picture of people sailing spinnakers without poles on International Folkboats.

Any comments on this use of a spinnaker?
These yachts sail their spinnakers with poles but the one with the blue sail is seen straight on the bow. When looking closely, you can see the pole end close to the tack of the sail. You can also see the shadow of the pole on the genoa.

It is impossible to carry a symmetrical spinnaker on a beam reach without a device pushing the sail forward.

Alain
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Old 18-12-2012, 12:48   #26
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Re: Symmetrical Spinnaker without Pole

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These yachts sail their spinnakers with poles but the one with the blue sail is seen straight on the bow. When looking closely, you can see the pole end close to the tack of the sail. You can also see the shadow of the pole on the genoa.

It is impossible to carry a symmetrical spinnaker on a beam reach without a device pushing the sail forward.

Alain
I don't see any poles, though my eyes are getting bad. Here's a shot from a different angle, where you can see lines going to both sides of the spinnaker. Plus, how would you use a pole and a jib at the same time?
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Old 18-12-2012, 12:54   #27
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My oft repeated opinion: Tackers and the like are useless. When simply tacked to the stem with a 1 to 2 meter strop the spinnaker will fly nicely out to lee and forward - that's where you want it. Works for either A or S spinnakers.

As far as releasing the tack to douse: That is a rare technique. Better to have the two lower corners under control during the douse. Releasing the tack and the halyard leaves only the floppy sheet controlling the sail. Shorthanded, and even with racing crew, the tack is not released until the douse is nearly complete. I strap the sheet tight and completely blow the halyard. The sail floats out to leeward for enough time to gather it in. It can be stuffed into the bag or hatch without ever releasing the tack.
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Old 18-12-2012, 13:08   #28
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Re: Symmetrical Spinnaker without Pole

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I don't see any poles, though my eyes are getting bad. Here's a shot from a different angle, where you can see lines going to both sides of the spinnaker. Plus, how would you use a pole and a jib at the same time?
I'm sorry for your eyes.

You carry the jib on the lee side and the pole on the windward side. I do it all the time when hoisting/dousing the spinnaker. The windward guy runs through the jaw at the pole end.

Alain
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Old 18-12-2012, 13:26   #29
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Re: Symmetrical Spinnaker without Pole

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I'm sorry for your eyes.

You carry the jib on the lee side and the pole on the windward side. I do it all the time when hoisting/dousing the spinnaker. The windward guy runs through the jaw at the pole end.

Alain
OK, gotcha. I see the poles now. I think my eyes were wandering elsewhere in the photograph.
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Old 18-12-2012, 14:33   #30
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Re: Symmetrical Spinnaker without Pole

Yes, it can be done. The question is why would you? It is, in my opinion, much easier to fly a symmetrical spinnaker using a pole than not.
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