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Old 23-12-2013, 00:26   #76
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

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Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
I guess what I'm wondering is if some of the more experienced have any compelling reasons (other than convenience) why I should not do this.
The compelling reason I can think of is the fact that you have never used a furler, so maybe it would be worth your while to try it out since you have one anyway and see if you like it.

I mean look, I am all about old-school, but you have an opportunity to try out a modern convenience at no cost and with no effort. So give it a try. You can always convert to hanks later. Try it. Who knows, you might like it.
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Old 23-12-2013, 00:33   #77
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pirate Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

And that's the best goddamn answer you've had in the whole thread..
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Old 23-12-2013, 05:02   #78
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
The compelling reason I can think of is the fact that you have never used a furler, so maybe it would be worth your while to try it out since you have one anyway and see if you like it.

I mean look, I am all about old-school, but you have an opportunity to try out a modern convenience at no cost and with no effort. So give it a try. You can always convert to hanks later. Try it. Who knows, you might like it.
+1

Not because a furler is "better" - but simply because it can often be more convenient.....amazing how quickly folks can get used to convenience , and are willing to trade a few degrees of "better".
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Old 23-12-2013, 06:16   #79
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

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We just had our first furling jib set up!! All I can say is , we would have used a hank on more then we did the furling set up cus it was a pain in the butt to us ! it was way to big a sail for the boat ! and in anything above 15 knots we were back to useing just the staysail and main and mizzen! Or even just staysail and mizzen! Of course we have come from useing junk sails for 20 + years with no jib at all!! I would rather have a few different size jibs, to use in different conditions, then trying to semi-furl a furling jib set up !! On our 51ft staysail ketch the furling jib has proved to us we have not missed anything by not haveing one before !! We sure don't use it as much as we would hank on's if we have an assortment of sails for the jib set up !! It really made 2 handing sailing a little harder!! Because of the size of the jib and the effort to use it !! So far we use the staysail, and some combo of main and mizzen more the anything !! but then we are old and sorta like to do things EASY LOL
I had the same kind of thing on my old cutter. Too big of a drop off in power without the head sail. I had a larger staysail built with battens this helped close the power gap when sailing without the headsail. Also went with a big roach main. The power gains were so much I could have/should have gone with a smaller and lighter headsail. I have done the same with my new ketch, big roach main and mizzen. No staysail yet but one is in the works.
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Old 28-12-2013, 22:43   #80
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

I found a more local sailmaker than Vector that came highly recommended and called him. He agreed to meet me today at his shop so I drove there with our roller genoa to have him look it over. His assessment of the sail is that is it "blown out" and he showed me where the material in the sail has been stretched, which is pretty common with roller reefing (according to him). He said only the luff is really designed to take the load and not a midpoint on the sail rolling it up part way. It should be either all the way out or all the way in. And our sail has obviously been sailed rolled part way up a good portion of its life.

While the sail is not in perfect condition he said he can cut it down to a working jib size for our boat and have the correct sail shape with no problem. And we should get 2-3 years of service from it yet as a hank-on working jib.
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Old 29-12-2013, 01:21   #81
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

CC:

In your position, i would trial the saillmaker's opinion. Most of one's decisions are made on one's own experiences. It is very few of us who are willing to risk based on others' experiences.

With your boat, which is known to be tender, if you want to keep her "on her feet", changing down early will work for you, and as it is consistent with your training, it shoudl feel right.

Once you have left fresh waters, and sailed a bit in salt waters, you might want to be open to change, due to the different environment.

Ann
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Old 29-12-2013, 04:47   #82
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Guess selling the furler and genoa will put a few $$'s towards your new hank on genoa, No1, No2, No3 and storm jib..
Whatever floats your boat.. mind I'm not that house proud.. a few creases never affected performance and as the sail looses its stiffness they'll disappear.
+1 boatie
It's funnily how delivery skippers with zillions of miles are usually the least " purist". And the weekend warrior is the one all het up.

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Old 29-12-2013, 06:04   #83
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

We have a roller furling genoa and an inner forestay with hank on staysail and hank on storm jib. Great setup and best of both worlds.

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Old 29-12-2013, 06:13   #84
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

Delivery skippers are never purists, hell if the boat speed gets below 5 knots they have the engine going. When your getting paid by the mile that's to be expected.
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Old 29-12-2013, 09:39   #85
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

Ann T. Cate - our sailmaker did not really have an opinion one way or the other. He simply told me that IF he cuts our old sail and breathes new life into it for the roller, don't use it to reef it. It's hard on the material in the sail and it moves the center of effort higher on the forestay, putting more load on the rig and causing excessive heeling. It's not made for reefing despite what the manufacturers of the rollers claim or how people use them.

He will make what ever we want. As we left it, he is going to cut down our old roller sail for a hank-on working jib and make us a new storm jib with 9 oz Dacron.
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Old 29-12-2013, 09:53   #86
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pirate Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

I'm surprised no sail maker has come up with a cut that will keep the centre of effort lower as it furls... tho' must confess no 2 furl the same.. some I can remove the sheets from as they're head level.. others are beyond a stretch when furled..
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Old 29-12-2013, 10:26   #87
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

boatman - we have never had sails made before and it was interesting and educational to talk to the fellow and see what he does. I remember him mentioning that with roller furling the clew ends up too high and it can cause a bend in the forestay that can jam some furlers if you use it reef.

He said he will make a stainless steel cable pennant for our storm jib that will fly the sail high enough to keep it out of the water but just clear the lifelines so nothing rubs. He did say there is no way to cut a sail for a roller that will work right as a storm jib. And that the material in working jibs and genoa sails is not heavy enough for a storm jib anyway. But he said there's lot of people that do it anyway and he gets their business when their sail gets wrecked.
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Old 30-12-2013, 06:12   #88
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

Here is our take on the first statement regarding going back to hank on's. After many years and tens of thousands of miles racing and cruising without a roller furler we put one on in NZ with a custom made sail to fit the boat and our intended sailing conditions.

What we found out is that being short handed our passage time decreased and our overall passage speed came up. Why? Because we could carry the headsail until we needed to reduce sail and then roll it in. Same going the other way..... As soon as the wind begins to lighten out goes the sail. This is in sharp contrast to reducing sail when we see a squall coming and then waiting a period of time after it passes to make sure the wind is really going to stay lighter. How many times I changed sails only to find 15 minutes later that Mother Nature decided to tweak me with a wind speed change. For example on our passage from Mexico to French Polynesia before we installed the furler we changed headsails 83 times! A number of those changes involved poles as well. That's more than 3 times a day.

The other thing that has not been mentioned is gaining a huge amount of space not having to carry 5+ headsails. We freed up a large locker that we promptly filled with other stuff LOL.

We have a Solent stay that we use for a 130 when we run twin headsails in the trades and also a hank on storm jib.

After 30,000+ miles using both furler and non furler we would never go back to a non furler headsail for short handed sailing.

Sail safe

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Old 30-12-2013, 11:17   #89
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

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We have a roller furling genoa and an inner forestay with hank on staysail and hank on storm jib. Great setup and best of both worlds.

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That's our choice, and it's strongly influenced by the design of our foredeck, which sports an anchor well surrounded by heavy pipe, making the maintenance or adjustment of the staysail significantly safer than most boats.

But even there, we would be stubborn indeed if we hadn't considered a second, staysail furler.
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Old 30-12-2013, 13:39   #90
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Re: Switching Back to Hank-on for the Headsail

I can surely understand the convenience of a roller system for some folks. However, we're also looking at reliability and simplicity. I'm from the standpoint that not everybody likes "gadgets". I don't think you need 5 headsails either. We're not racing or trying to set any world speed records and feel we'll get along just fine with three. There are many days when we've gone sailing that we didn't even bother to hoist the jib unless we had to sail to weather. And other times when we dropped the main and used just the genoa on a run in a moderate breeze.
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