Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-06-2014, 07:44   #1
Registered User
 
DaBod's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Boat: None at the moment
Posts: 89
Stupid Knot Question

I am pretty sure I know the answer, but dumb things like this can sometimes keep me up at night. I am pretty nerdy about knots and love learning and practicing as much as I can. I am left handed and have noticed through the years that it causes me to tie knots backwards from instructional videos, photos, etc. They still seem to do their job, so I assume it doesn't matter, but I'd like to make sure.

Take for instance the simple round turn and two half hitches: I know the half hitches both need to be tied in the same direction, but as long as they are consistent, does it matter in which direction that is?
__________________

__________________
DaBod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 08:00   #2
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,080
Re: Stupid Knot Question

Grogs Knots will allow you to invert, mirror and rotate any knot tying instruction. Here for example is the bow line, look in top right corner for mirror etc
__________________

__________________
Factor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 08:28   #3
Registered User
 
DaBod's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Boat: None at the moment
Posts: 89
Re: Stupid Knot Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Grogs Knots will allow you to invert, mirror and rotate any knot tying instruction. Here for example is the bow line, look in top right corner for mirror etc
Very helpful, thank you! Not sure how I've never noticed those options in the upper left hand corner.
__________________
DaBod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 10:34   #4
Moderator
 
Seaworthy Lass's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Aluminium cutter rigged sloop
Posts: 12,810
Re: Stupid Knot Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
Take for instance the simple round turn and two half hitches: I know the half hitches both need to be tied in the same direction, but as long as they are consistent, does it matter in which direction that is?
Nice to meet a fellow nerdy knot lover .

Yes, it does matter, but the easy, instinctive direction is the correct one in this case (if that makes sense, you need to give the tail a weird twist otherwise ).
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea." Isak Dinesen
"To me the simple act of tying a knot is an adventure in unlimited space." Clifford Ashley
Seaworthy Lass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 13:00   #5
Registered User
 
DaBod's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Boat: None at the moment
Posts: 89
Re: Stupid Knot Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Nice to meet a fellow nerdy knot lover .

Yes, it does matter, but the easy, instinctive direction is the correct one in this case (if that makes sense, you need to give the tail a weird twist otherwise ).
Nice to meet you as well!

That's kind of my issue...I am not sure I can blame it solely on my left handedness, but more the way that seems to make certain things instinctive.

I'll see if I can explain: with the round turn and two half hitches, the "instinctive direction" in my mind is to lead the tag end under the standing line and then up and through to form a half hitch. Most videos/images, however, take it over the top of the standing line. From what I can tell, the result is the same, but I also tend to make things far more complicated than they need to be. Pretty sure I can't blame that on being left handed, but more on some sort of awful curse...
__________________
DaBod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 13:23   #6
Moderator
 
Seaworthy Lass's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Aluminium cutter rigged sloop
Posts: 12,810
Re: Stupid Knot Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
Nice to meet you as well!

That's kind of my issue...I am not sure I can blame it solely on my left handedness, but more the way that seems to make certain things instinctive.

I'll see if I can explain: with the round turn and two half hitches, the "instinctive direction" in my mind is to lead the tag end under the standing line and then up and through to form a half hitch. Most videos/images, however, take it over the top of the standing line. From what I can tell, the result is the same, but I also tend to make things far more complicated than they need to be. Pretty sure I can't blame that on being left handed, but more on some sort of awful curse...
Ah, I see now what you mean about 'the wrong direction'. Because it is slower leading the line under if you are tying the knot on a bollard, than laying it on the top (and speed is often of an essence in this situation), then I have never been tempted to do it this way. Try tying the knot around a bollard rather than a horizontal pole and you will see what I mean.

I am no expert (just an enthusiastic novice), but I think the security would be worse passing it under. Putting it on top would apply pressure differently (in hitches you typically pass the line OVER the standing end if the standing end is closest to you). 'Over' and 'under' references are as if it is tied on a pole. Simple concepts like this make it much easier remembering how to tie knots.

I will take some photos tomorrow and try and post them to show you what I mean. Internet is not good on board.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea." Isak Dinesen
"To me the simple act of tying a knot is an adventure in unlimited space." Clifford Ashley
Seaworthy Lass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 14:24   #7
Registered User
 
DaBod's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Boat: None at the moment
Posts: 89
Re: Stupid Knot Question

Thank you for the information! I would love to see some photos and will practice on a bollard this evening.

This "backwards" thing doesn't seem to be as much of an issue on some (midshipman's hitch, rolling hitch, etc.) because it is easy to see and test if the knot "works" as it should. The RT & 2 HH is a bit more haunting, because it will hold if tied "backward" but it is difficult to test its strength under load when practicing on the back patio.
__________________
DaBod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 15:34   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,707
Re: Stupid Knot Question

"Handedness" can matter on laid or twisted rope, it will affect the tendency to slip and could possibly affect the tendency to capsize. (Not sure about breaking, but I could see where it may have an effect on this)

Logically, it should irrelevant on braided rope.
__________________
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 15:50   #9
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Stupid Knot Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
"Handedness" can matter on laid or twisted rope, it will affect the tendency to slip and could possibly affect the tendency to capsize. (Not sure about breaking, but I could see where it may have an effect on this)

Logically, it should irrelevant on braided rope.
I like this very logical insight and I totally agree, but then another questions follows. Is there a standard in line manufacturing that results in all line being laid or twisted in the same direction?
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 16:21   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,707
Re: Stupid Knot Question

Rope can be S or Z laid. Using the ISO 2 nomenclature where the centre stroke of the letter illustrated the direction of the lay as the rope. The vast majority are Z or right handed twist.

ISO 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 20:44   #11
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Stupid Knot Question

'not surprised that the vast majority are all the same. This makes me think of the natural dominance of "L" over "D" optical isomers among amino acids. None the less, it's abitrary when it comes to line and knots. Change the twist direction and the reverse or "mirror image" of the knot is the same in way of function.
__________________

__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
knot

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stupid Is as Stupid Does smcauley440 The Sailor's Confessional 13 18-03-2011 03:52
Stupid, Stupid Laws Factor Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 24 28-04-2010 21:51
A REALLY Stupid Thing Done While Doing a Stupid Thing Dick Pluta The Sailor's Confessional 31 28-04-2010 19:00



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.