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Old 12-09-2011, 01:21   #1
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Storm Sail Ideas

Hi,

New to forum - first post. Rigging my Hanse 540e for offshore. Brilliant feature is self-tacking headsail, but really can't see it being useful partly rolled up in a blow. Been there done that on my Hunter 466 in Pacific and have the melted outhaul...

90% rig on 90 foot mast and need to add option to power up for light wind and power down for strong winds - quickly (and not give up the short hand sailing option). Any ideas?
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:02   #2
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Re: Storm sail ideas

I hope your self-tacking jib works better than the self-tacking staysail on my boat. I have only a single sheet which goes through a block on a car -- one single sail control, so no way to do much of anything at all with the shape of the sail, no way to change sheeting angle. I have never reefed my staysail, but I don't believe that there would be any way to produce a decent shape as the clew moves away from the sheeting point on the car. As it is, the shape of my staysail is more or less ok only on a reach.

If I were you, I would think about rigging a removable inner forestay for a storm jib. You need a strong padeye on the foredeck to take the tensioning lever. You might also need to rig running backstays from the point on the mast where you rig the top end of the inner forestay.

It's about the only way I can think of to do it well. You could also have a couple of different size hank-on staysails for the inner forestay which will help a whole lot for cases where your reefed genoa is not performing well.

It will be a fairly large PITA to rig the sheets, cars, etc. and you might even need to add sheet winches (which you probably don't have on an all self-tacking rig, correct?).
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Old 12-09-2011, 05:52   #3
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Re: Storm sail ideas

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Originally Posted by BobSmith View Post
90% rig on 90 foot mast and need to add option to power up for light wind

Cruising code zero, but for cruising use, I would suggest perhaps not 'full size' to make it a bit easier to handle. We have a 78' stick and our code zero is easy to handle once we have it on deck and a terrifically flexible sail but is pretty bulky to stow and move from the sail locker to deck.

and power down for strong winds - quickly (and not give up the short hand sailing option). Any ideas?

The working blade jib is relatively small and I suspect you could carry it into the 30's, so the first priority is a really slick and fast and deep mainsail reefing system.

But at some point you do need to be able to fly a storm/heavy weather jib and you are not going to be changing sails in the foil. Your only two real options are a removable inner stay with hank on heavy weather sails or inner 'code zero furling' heavy weather sails. The first would be easier to do but both would probably require checkstays . . . this is much discussed in other threads.
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:43   #4
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Re: Storm sail ideas

OI Bob... you stole my pic lol...
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:26   #5
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Re: Storm sail ideas

Tall (high aspect) blade jib, flat, strong and preferably orange, not too big, not to small - about 2/3 of the original jib.

Three reefs in the main.

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Old 12-09-2011, 08:38   #6
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Re: Storm sail ideas

Welcome to the forum.

If the jib is already at 90%, you've got a main-driven boat, right? So concentrate on reefing the main deeply.

It shouldn't be too difficult to rig a furling line that won't melt. (A furling line is not an "outhaul," by the way.) A bigger problem is that a self-tacking jib is going to perform so poorly when partially furled you might as well just put it away.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:52   #7
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Re: Storm sail ideas

G'Day all,

As usual, Evans has given good advice...

But, it occurred to me that issues like this are the crux of the frequent discussions re the suitability of modern production boats as long distance cruisers. In so many cases (this one for instance) the boats are not equipped for such usage. Nothing necessarily wrong with the basic hull and rig, but missing the hardware for dealing with more severe conditions. And yes, one can indeed make the modifications to address these deficiencies, but it adds considerably to cost and time to prepare for a voyage.

Anyway, for the OP: you may find that with such a mainsail-driven boat decent performance can be achieved with no foresail at all... only a deeply reefed main. Some strong wind experimentation near to home might be a good investment.

Cheers,

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Old 12-09-2011, 09:19   #8
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Re: Storm sail ideas

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Welcome to the forum.

If the jib is already at 90%, you've got a main-driven boat, right? So concentrate on reefing the main deeply.
Meant 7/8 rig perhaps? About 2/3 of SA in the main then.

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Old 12-09-2011, 09:25   #9
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Re: Storm sail ideas

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(...)Nothing necessarily wrong with the basic hull and rig, but missing the hardware for dealing with more severe conditions.(...)
I think before it was just like this too - storm sails, extra rigging, etc. used to be optional extra, even if the fittings were already in place.

Modern boats are not optimized for spending the gale up-wind. To balance this 'deficiency' many of them sail before the storm like a dream while an older design will wallow and suffer. Things are different but none is better.

?

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Old 12-09-2011, 11:57   #10
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Re: Storm sail ideas

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you may find that with such a mainsail-driven boat decent performance can be achieved with no foresail at all... only a deeply reefed main.
Our experience is that's fine for upwind, but not so good for downwind. The steering can get real squirrely when broad reaching to running deep in 35-40kts with just the main. It provides either the autopilot or the helmsman a real work out. You obviously have gybe risks but less obviously risk getting sideways on a wave (And then being rolled).

Some suitable headsail is really really useful when sailing deep in a breeze.

Well placed (and strongly mounted) padeyes to sheet that blade jib outboard would be a useful and a not so difficult starting point. A blade is not the ideal strong breeze offshore shape because the foot can catch waves, but it would probably be adequate if you don't what to go to the innerstay effort. Another option would be to use a higher clewed working jib ("yankee/jib top") for offshore work, going to regular port/stb sheeting points and not the selftacking traveler (assumming you have some port/stb sheet winches.)

Some high modulus core would be nice on the furling line if planning to try using it partially furled. That would minimize any concerns about melting or breaking.
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:15   #11
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Re: Storm sail ideas

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Our experience is that's fine for upwind, but not so good for downwind.
I've found the same thing. In my last boat I had to run a two-day Force 8 gale, and the boat was happiest with a partially furled 85% jib and no main. Even with that setup, we had a 24-hour run that exceeded theoretical hull speed.
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Old 12-09-2011, 13:39   #12
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Re: Storm sail ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Our experience is that's fine for upwind, but not so good for downwind. The steering can get real squirrely when broad reaching to running deep in 35-40kts with just the main. It provides either the autopilot or the helmsman a real work out. You obviously have gybe risks but less obviously risk getting sideways on a wave (And then being rolled).

Some suitable headsail is really really useful when sailing deep in a breeze.

Some high modulus core would be nice on the furling line if planning to try using it partially furled. That would minimize any concerns about melting or breaking.
Good point, Evans. I was thinking of upwind performance. However, for sailing deep the poor shape of a partly furled blade wouldn't be such a big deal... would likely work OK.

But the issue of not having "real" sheets with adjustable fairleads would rear its ugly head, and I can imagine a lot of leach flutter setting up from excessive twist, etc. Might just have to install the things that Hanse left off at the factory.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 13-09-2011, 10:46   #13
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Re: Storm sail ideas

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Our experience is that's fine for upwind, but not so good for downwind.(...)
This must be boat-specific then. Our long keeled boat sails downwind very well, in storm conditions, under deeply reefed main. The only downside is if the wind suddenly drops and we are left underpowered.

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