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Old 08-02-2012, 15:41   #46
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

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Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
I just read through this entire thread, and had red flags going up over post #12. It may not have anything to do with the OPs problem , but WHY would anyone put a basic sail handling device(track) on a cruising boat that is temperature sensitive ? It might be OK on a day sailor, but cruisers go to all temperature extremes . One suggestion for the OP is to take someone for a sail that has a similar size boat and let him raise your main. If he says OH SH#@. you know you have a problem. Another suggestion would be to put a self tailing winch in place of the original to eliminate the second person needed. I will be boat hunting starting in 6 or 8 months, and I will steer clear of this system. ___My 2cents worth.____Grant.
If it is temperature sensitive this is the first I have heard about it. Sometimes manufacturers reps will tell you weird stuff to blow you off so to speak. Since they don't know the answer it must be something the user is doing wrong. Right! Looking at my system I truly believe the concept is ok but there are just some other factors at work that I haven't figured out yet. As of now I am no worse off for buying the system other than the expense but it hasn't done what I hoped it would do YET. I am not giving up!!!!
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Old 08-02-2012, 17:46   #47
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

The reason I said that something temperature sensitive should not be on a cruising boat was from reading the OPs post #12 where he says that the Tide Marine people told him that it was optimized to work at 70 degrees, and they were concerned that he was using it in 40 degree weather. That message coming from the main marketer makes me want to stay away from a potential problem. REREAD POST #12 and see what you think of it. I am not trying to start a debate about the system, but the number of people on this thread that seem to have had a similar problem puts up red flags for me.____Grant.
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Old 08-02-2012, 18:03   #48
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

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Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
The reason I said that something temperature sensitive should not be on a cruising boat was from reading the OPs post #12 where he says that the Tide Marine people told him that it was optimized to work at 70 degrees, and they were concerned that he was using it in 40 degree weather. That message coming from the main marketer makes me want to stay away from a potential problem. REREAD POST #12 and see what you think of it. I am not trying to start a debate about the system, but the number of people on this thread that seem to have had a similar problem puts up red flags for me.____Grant.
I did go back and read the post. I am just saying that I really trust Sailcare, the company that sold me the system and modified my sail. After installing the system I went back to them asking for help in solving the issue of what appears to be binding. There were lots of exchanges and the idea of temperature sensativity never came up. I believe they have been selling the system as long as it has been around.

The Strong Track is very inexpensive when compared to the Harken battcar system and maybe the old adage applies that one gets what ones pay for. Surely their must be lots of satisfied customers or we would be seeing a lot more negative posts. As for me, I am going to e-mail Sailcare and ask them about this temp thing. I will post what they say.
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Old 08-02-2012, 18:21   #49
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

STRONG™ Track is machined to fit your mast track from a product called UHMW-PE. This material has a very low coefficient of friction and is impact, abrasion, and wear resistant. It is not affected by saltwater, hot or cold temperatures, and is UV stable. It is available in one-piece lengths up to 85' and can be installed without going up the mast or drilling any holes in the mast. Each track shape is matched to each vessel's mast. The system will work with flat or round internal grooves as well as external mounted track.

I copied the above from Sailcare's site and it clearly states temp is not an issue.
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Old 08-02-2012, 19:46   #50
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
The reason I said that something temperature sensitive should not be on a cruising boat was from reading the OPs post #12 where he says that the Tide Marine people told him that it was optimized to work at 70 degrees, and they were concerned that he was using it in 40 degree weather. That message coming from the main marketer makes me want to stay away from a potential problem. REREAD POST #12 and see what you think of it. I am not trying to start a debate about the system, but the number of people on this thread that seem to have had a similar problem puts up red flags for me.____Grant.
Yeah, I re-read that post. It was a strange thing for Tides Marine to say, and I think they were just blowing the problem off. Like I said, ours has worked perfectly, every time, for 13 years through 40* to 100*. I don't have a dog in the running, so don't care if anyone gets one or not. Owning one, I just don't see how temperature can effect its performance.

Mark
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Old 08-02-2012, 19:56   #51
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

Telephone cable jacket is made of very similar stuff, HDPE. It can be a bit stiffer at cold temps but I don't see that effecting the performance. Maybe even better at cold?

I just installed my track, don't have the main back up yet so I can't comment on that. I did talk to a couple of people who sold and installed the track and they said it was easier to install when warm, which I can see.

I'll report back in a while when I get the main up. Probably a few weeks.

I have read a lot of threads on this stuff before committing to buy. This is the first hint of a complaint that I have heard.

We will see.
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Old 09-02-2012, 17:13   #52
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I installed a strong track on passport 42 two years ago. My main has a large roach and four full battons. Without the reef lines I can raise the main by hand. Which I could never do before the ST.

The system was a breeze to I install. After two years and hundreds of raise/lowers I see. O loss of performance. I can flip the clutch and my will come screaming down.

I love my ST. Can't recommend it enough.
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Old 09-02-2012, 20:06   #53
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

UHMW PE does have a very high coefficient of thermal expansion. I used the stuff for my rudder bearings which are 3' long (don't ask) and notice about a 1/4" difference between California and SE Asia. That said, the Strong Track is not fastened to the mast so movement of a few inches in length should not be a problem. I can't imagine that the difference in width would be enough to affect performance, hence Sailcare's statement that it is unaffected by heat or cold.

Mike
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:31   #54
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

Mine is connected at the bottom, and when I put it up, on a cold (45F) day, I ran it all the way to the top. So if it does expand I may get some compression.

I found nothing in the instructions to indicate that I should allow for that.

Coefficient of Linear Thermal Expansion
(10 exp-6 )in/in/C

59 to 110 (10 x exp –6) in/in /C
0.000 059 to 0.000 110 in/in /C

HDPE Properties

For a 50 foot mast track & 30C delta it works out to..........

600 inches x 30c = 1800 say 2000.

2,000 x 0.000 110 = 0.220 inch

Did I do that right
?

Perhaps your bearing was getting squished?
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:52   #55
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

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Originally Posted by SailArkansas View Post
I have thought constantly of having someone go up the mast to check out the top sheave.
Come to think of it, when I first installed my strong track I was displeased with the effort it took to raise the main. So I switched my halyard from 9/16 sta-set-x to 7/16 warp speed. That made all the difference. Clearly the 9/16 was too big for the measthead shive.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:45   #56
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Mine is connected at the bottom, and when I put it up, on a cold (45F) day, I ran it all the way to the top. So if it does expand I may get some compression.

I found nothing in the instructions to indicate that I should allow for that.

Coefficient of Linear Thermal Expansion
(10 exp-6 )in/in/C

59 to 110 (10 x exp –6) in/in /C
0.000 059 to 0.000 110 in/in /C

HDPE Properties

For a 50 foot mast track & 30C delta it works out to..........

600 inches x 30c = 1800 say 2000.

2,000 x 0.000 110 = 0.220 inch

Did I do that right
?

Perhaps your bearing was getting squished?
I get about 2":

Coeffecient of linear thermal expansion = 11(10exp -5)in/in/degree F

.00011" x 600" x 30 degrees F= 1.98"

If you come to Thailand, at 95*F that number could get to 3.3". If the sun is shining on the black HDPE it might go higher?

I think you lost a zero when you multiplied 600x30, but then I flunked out of algebra in high school.

I left about 10mm of room in my bearings and after bringing them to the tropics I have about 5mm of room, so that seems about right.

Mike
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Old 10-02-2012, 17:42   #57
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

Nope, your right.

That's what I get for doing it in my head.
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Old 19-02-2012, 18:08   #58
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

Got the main back on this weekend.

Not ideal conditions. About 50F with a bit of wind over the transom. None-the-less we got it up. Didn't really give it a workout as the wind was not helpful but......we did have to winch up the main all the way.

So first try verdict?

Great.

I still have to use the winch but it went up smoothly and without all the hitches and hanging. And came down swell. Compared to what we were used to this is a dream.

I'll have to keep an eye on it to see if there is a problem due to expansion, but I kind of doubt that will be an issue. If it is I can always shave off an inch or two from the bottom, although I would not relish that thought.
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Old 19-02-2012, 18:49   #59
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Re: Sticky Strong Track

I still believe there's something else wrong. We have an Antal track which is based upon the same principles (sliding cars, not ball bearings) and with our 64' boat, I can hand-raise the sails until the part I have raised becomes heavier than I am. The rest goes up very easy with a winch. I doubt if anybody here has a heavier sail then me...

My battens are round solid glass 3/4" diameter. These will bend when the main is set, which needs a lot of force. So much, that I can't raise the last part of the main even with the electric winch. The only way to get this done is by raising the boom.

So pls. check again that the boom vang is loose and you raise the boom with the topping lift. If that doesn't help, do what somebody else already suggested: tie a block to your halyard and put another line through the block. Raise the block to the masthead and now you have an extra block up there with an extra halyard. Use this temporary halyard to raise the main and see if this goes smoothly.

cheers,
Nick.
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