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Old 18-04-2019, 19:13   #31
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

[QUOTE=thinwater;2872884]DSM is manufacturing UHMPE in China.

China! Shouldn't a sailor buy locally to support their country? Wherever that country might be? If you live in the U.S. then you'll be hammered with import taxes so locally may end up being the same price...For the record, this was meant to be a light post.
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Old 18-04-2019, 23:18   #32
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
While I would stay with a name brand for anything critical, there are many applications for strong rope, and I think the time is near where UHMPE will become the cheapest fiber on a strength bases. In many cases, it is already there. I've tested some really cheap products and generally been impressed; they are often slightly weaker than Amsteel, for example, but they met the claimed specs and were cheap in terms of $/pound-strength.
Even Samson Amsteel is already roughly the same price as Samson double braid polyester, strength for strength.

These new brands emerging (certainly not what is often referred to as “cheap and nasty eBay UHMWPE”) are less than half the price of this.

This suddenly makes UHMWPE an absolute bargain. Due to its slippery, low stretch nature it cannot always substitute polyester, but it had many characteristics that are more favourable - strength for strength its weight and volume are dramatically lower, its UV resistance is higher, it floats, etc. It is also super easy to work with eg creating eye splices.

I did a quick comparison of price:

Amsteel Blue 1/4"
Breaking strain 7700 lbs = 3492 kg
$1.07 / ft = $3.51 / m

Samson EQ Braid Double Braid Polyester Yacht Rope 1/2"
Breaking strain 8300 lb = 3764 kg
$1 / ft = $3.28 / m


Acera Amundsen 6 mm = 1/4”
Breaking strain 3770 kg = 8311 lb
€1.44 / m (price I paid last year in the Netherlands)
= $1.62 / m


Have a hunt in your local fishing chandlery. I found both Acera Amundsen and Stealth Super-12 this way. The yachting market is small fry compared to the fishing and shipping industries and you can pick up good quality (if not superior) rope at bargain prices away from the yachting scene.

SWL
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Old 18-04-2019, 23:42   #33
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

By the way, Acera is produced by Timm (who have been manufacturing rope since George Washington sat in Trump’s place).

Timm is a subsiduary of Wilhelmsen, which is a Norwegian global maritime group with operations in 75 countries, so it would surprise me if they skipped the US. Acera is certainly available in Australia.

It is certified (see photo of the tag on the rope I bought to make our series drogue the year before last).

Standards are a tad high if anyone calls this high pedigree rope “no name” , yet it is less than half the price of Samson’s Amsteel.

SWL
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Old 19-04-2019, 00:28   #34
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

Ange, who is your supplier in Australia? My meager search talents fail to come up with a retail outlet. I'm looking for several sizes for applications in the near future.

Jim
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Old 19-04-2019, 00:34   #35
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

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Ange, who is your supplier in Australia? My meager search talents fail to come up with a retail outlet. I'm looking for several sizes for applications in the near future.

Jim
I haven’t actually bought any in Australia yet, only from a fishing chandlery in the Netherlands, but I will have a hunt online.
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Old 19-04-2019, 00:43   #36
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

Jim, I tried ringing them, but it is Good Friday, so no one is likely to be around until Tuesday. I sent an email instead. Saves hunting .
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Old 19-04-2019, 01:00   #37
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

OK, I couldn’t resist a little hunt .
Wilhelmsen have 20 offices in Australia. Links to them are here:
https://www.wilhelmsen.com/contacts-...nia/australia/

Jim, if I don’t hear back from Timm directly (the manufacturing plant may not know much about distribution), probably the easiest thing is to give the closest Wilhelmsen office in Australia a call after Easter.
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Old 19-04-2019, 01:48   #38
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

I would be interested in an Oz source too, I have been cutting up UHMWPE trailer boat winch cables that sell quite cheaply online, they seem OK but I would like to know the manufacturer is kosher.
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Old 19-04-2019, 08:10   #39
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

You don't deal directly with Samson for purchasing their rope unless it's in large quantities. We supply para-anchor setups for the U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast guard using spectra rope from Samson and Dyneema from another company. However, we usually end up purchasing the Samson rope from one of their dealers. Much less than the prices listed in this thread. You have to shop around. Being able to pick up the rope yourself is best, because you avoid shipping costs.

Pelican rope was actually one of the largest suppliers of Australian rope until China took over. Pelican makes custom rope for us and we would see huge stacks of rolls lined up for Australia. Pelican couldn't keep up with demand. Many suppliers in Australia can rename the rope so it's possible you might not see where the rope was originally built.

All the manufacturers use the same type of rope machines to build their rope. What matters is the quality of fiber used and whether or not the thread count on the rope is thick or thin. The more expensive name brands tend not to cheat, some off brands might be cheating. For low-level project no worries. For safety, go with a company that has a good reputation.
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Old 19-04-2019, 10:06   #40
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

Today’s task was replacing the Bullseye soft shackles that capture the low friction rings that allow our nylon snubber to deviate smoothly as it hovers above the length of our deck. The snubber is connected to a rear bollard via a soft shackle and another soft shackle at the other end attaches it to a strop of 14 mm Acera (used for chafe protection), which in turn passes over the bow and is soft shackled onto our chain just above the waterline.

These were made in Stealth Super-12. The LF rings are Wichard with a hole diameter of 25 mm. These are suitable for rope up to 17 mm in diameter and so our 14 mm snubber passes through smoothly:
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Old 21-04-2019, 01:26   #41
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

This is the other end of the snubber. A 6mm Acera soft shackle connects it to a strop of 14 mm Acera (thick for chafe protection), with eyes spliced on both ends, which goes over the bow.

This has been in use now for a year and has held us during five named storms at anchor in north west Scotland during the autumn/winter months. There are now signs of wear where the strop of Acera passes over the bow and I will replace this sometime soon.

I had a SS thimble in the eye of the snubber, but it risked scraping on the white non skid paint on the deck when not in use. The eyes don’t seem to suffer without a thimble in this application. We have been using the system of running the snubber the length of the deck for several years now and it works brilliantly. The whole length floats about 5-10 cm above the deck when under load.

SWL
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Old 21-04-2019, 13:25   #42
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

Timms does have offices in Oz but they do not handle their rope sales. They referred me to their agent in Slovenia, a really nice & helpful fellow.

By the way, they also make really nice braided products.


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Old 22-04-2019, 08:22   #43
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

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Timms does have offices in Oz but they do not handle their rope sales. They referred me to their agent in Slovenia, a really nice & helpful fellow.

By the way, they also make really nice braided products.


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Hi Big Beakie
I remember you made a series drogue using Acera and assumed you purchased it in Australia.

If that’s not the case, sorry for misleading everyone.

I emailed Timm in Slovakia and Wilhelmsen in Melbourne a few days ago regarding retail outlets for Acera in Australia, but with it being Easter I have not had a response yet.

SWL
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Old 22-04-2019, 09:27   #44
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

Thanks for those PDF's 👍

I tried to source it here, but Acera was unknown then so I tracked Peter Bernat down. Lucky Acera is fairly light, so posting it is not too expensive.

Our boat build is bogged down so I've been occupied trying to get that sorted out, so have not put the JSD together yet with the Ocean Break cones. I was thinking of using Crosby 209A shackles, eyes and thimbles to put it together, so glad I delayed that decision and will follow the method discussed at Morgans Cloud. Excellent analysis there of the Susie Goodall pitchpole cause btw.

Re your bridle attachment did you shackle your JSD bridle to the boat with eyes & thimbles in the Acera, or Cow hitch to the Chainplate somehow?


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Old 22-04-2019, 09:54   #45
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Re: Stealth mode - New Generation Ropes

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Thanks for those PDF's ��

I tried to source it here, but Acera was unknown then so I tracked Peter Bernat down. Lucky Acera is fairly light, so posting it is not too expensive.

Our boat build is bogged down so I've been occupied trying to get that sorted out, so have not put the JSD together yet with the Ocean Break cones. I was thinking of using Crosby 209A shackles, eyes and thimbles to put it together, so glad I delayed that decision and will follow the method discussed at Morgans Cloud. Excellent analysis there of the Susie Goodall pitchpole cause btw.

Re your bridle attachment did you shackle your JSD bridle to the boat with eyes & thimbles in the Acera, or Cow hitch to the Chainplate somehow?
I have no excuse for not completing our drogue, having had a thoroughly lazy winter . The attachment of cones is sooooooooo tedious that I have just been delaying it. I got stuck into the project not long before our last ocean passage a few weeks ago.

I was going to cow hitch the Acera sections together, including to the bridle. There have been warnings in the past about using thimbles or shackles for this. The alternative is splicing one eye onto the other. I am undecided.

We have two panama leads at the rear, so the bridle of the drogue will pass through this. There is then a double bollard closeby on each side at the rear. Security is not an issue with it - it is welded not simply to the deck, but to the underlying frame. I plan to simply make an eye splice at the end of the bridle to throw over this. The only shackle will be a Crosby connecting the weight at the end (chain) to the eye splice at the end of the last length of cones.

I read about Susie’s pitchpole and that it occured because of a failure of the JSD. I have not caught up yet precisely why that failure occurred.

SWL
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