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Old 07-04-2011, 13:26   #1
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Staysail on Furler?

My new boat comes standard with an inner forstay and I'm trying to determine which is the most practical set up for a boat that will be used both for inshore and offshore cruising. My preference is to have both the headsail and the staysail on furlers. My question is this, if I have both on furlers, can I still have a hyfield lever on the inner forestay and if so do I have to remove the staysail when stowing the inner forstay beside the mast?

Thanks
Greg
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Old 07-04-2011, 13:29   #2
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

My staysail is on a boom with conventional hanks. I like being able to reef it properly down along the boom and not "forward" the way a roller does things. A good friend of mine has his on a roller.
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Old 07-04-2011, 13:36   #3
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

I can't really imagine that a furler and a Hayfield lever could play nicely with each other. If you want to remove the inner forestay, I would hank on the staysail.

But why do you need to remove the inner forestay? Ours doesn't bother us a bit.

I don't think it's a big deal either way. I don't think furling is very important for a staysail. We never reef ours. And I don't think being able to remove the inner forestay is really useful, either.
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Old 07-04-2011, 13:53   #4
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

Wouldn't you rather half a self tending staysail? Dropping the staysail isn't like dropping a big Genoa. Just a thought...I know nothing about that lever thing..
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Old 07-04-2011, 13:58   #5
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

Hi
I don't see how you could use a furler (with foil) and a Hyfield lever or Wichard or whatever. If you want furling and removable you will have to use something like the Facnor system that is used for Code O or staysail. It needs a low stretch rope (or wire) in luff under extreme tension and the furling is with a drum and continous line. I think the very latest model uses a webbing for furling on the drum. See their web site.

I agree that unless you what to race around the buoys, I don't see the need for removable inner stay. On my previous boat that's what I had. But I was young and liked to race. Now I have two permanent Profurl system on forestay and inner stay.

Michel
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Old 07-04-2011, 14:02   #6
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleebana View Post
My new boat comes standard with an inner forstay and I'm trying to determine which is the most practical set up for a boat that will be used both for inshore and offshore cruising. My preference is to have both the headsail and the staysail on furlers. My question is this, if I have both on furlers, can I still have a hyfield lever on the inner forestay and if so do I have to remove the staysail when stowing the inner forstay beside the mast?

Thanks
Greg
You could use a luff line furler and drop and stow the whole thing when not in use. Also, no hyfield lever is needed with this type setup.
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Old 07-04-2011, 14:14   #7
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

29' boat?

Additionally, the inner stay is not out at the bow; there is plenty of deck.

I've had both and I'd go with hanks for the inner; fast and sure in squalls.
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Old 07-04-2011, 14:29   #8
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

I have a furler on the yankee jib forestay, and I like the idea of a Facnor or something similar on a Code Zero, but the staysail in my view should be hank-on, reefable along its foot and as simple as possible. In 35 knots, I can push my 30,000 lb. steel cutter with this sail alone, nice and steady, at 7 knots. So I would prefer to have a "regular" staysail plus a heavier "storm" staysail that effectively does the job of a storm jib or Gale Sail...keeps the boat crabbing forward in heavy weather without needing much of my attention due to good construction and modest size.

A furler would add unwanted complexity. Hell, it's only the size of a No. 3 on a 33 footer.
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Old 07-04-2011, 14:41   #9
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

Yes, an inner jib on a furler can be used with a pelican hook or any other device that allows for temporary removal.

The things you will want to look at are sc. structural furlers. I believe Facnor makes some, but not only. I think then the sail is only full in / full out (no option to use the sail half-furled).

However, very likely - you will be able to find a solution that allows for the use of a partly furled sail too.

BTW - very often the inner jib is so small that it is way easier just to have it with hanks and the stay removable when not in use!

b.
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Old 07-04-2011, 19:38   #10
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yes, an inner jib on a furler can be used with a pelican hook or any other device that allows for temporary removal.
Hi b.

Sorry to hijack (well not really too sorry or I wouldn't be doing it ) but I've been trying to find a large pelican hook to use as a quick disconnect for the inner stay but no luck. Any idea who may make or sell these? Only source I found was in Belgium and they no longer carry them.

Then to get back on topic, make the staysail hank on, roller for the jib.

Thanks
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Old 07-04-2011, 21:06   #11
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

G'Day Greg,

Well, fwiw Insatiable II has the staysail on a furler and it is on a Highfield lever. Can be done! And in our case, it is really a Solent Jib rather than a pukka staysail, which makes it a bit more difficult to deal with.

Anyhow, we expect to arrive on the Lake next Tuesday or Wednesday, and will be leaving the boat in Marmong Point whilst we return to the States. This means that you could come by and have a look at what is entailed in such a setup.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, about to finally depart Morning Cove NSW, Oz
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:27   #12
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Hi b.

Sorry to hijack (well not really too sorry or I wouldn't be doing it ) but I've been trying to find a large pelican hook to use as a quick disconnect for the inner stay but no luck. Any idea who may make or sell these?
Hi,

Ours came from Hasselfors which today is Selden. I seen very, very similar ones at SVB:

Babystay Release / Slip Hook from 4,50 € - SVB

(svb / shop / babystay release / slip hook)

'This what you want?

Cheers,
b.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:34   #13
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

I don't know that it really matters. If it's a smaller boat I would probably live with hank on staysl's, if you race I would definitely stick with hank on.

We have a Highfield lever and currently use hank on but will probably change to roller furling when we go full time cruising. Not so much for convenience but because our halyard exits above the hound. No chafe if we use a furler.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:44   #14
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

I find it surprising that you can use roller reefing with a hyfield lever; certainly the roller reefing could not use an aluminum extrusion and the result would be, I suspect, a pretty loose luff.

Personally, I would go with either the Hyfield lever and a hank-on with a reef (essentially a 'Solent' rig); or eliminate the lever and use roller furling. I have had both and, while I enjoyed the lever and the ability to keep the foredeck unobstructed for tacks of the headsail in most conditions, I vastly prefer roller reefing: when things get nasty if so nice to be able to furl up the headsail, unfurl the staysail and, if necessary reef it to a storm jib from the safety of the cockpit.

Brad
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:26   #15
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Re: Staysail on Furler?

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post

(...) I vastly prefer roller reefing: when things get nasty if so nice to be able to furl up the headsail, unfurl the staysail and, if necessary reef it to a storm jib from the safety of the cockpit.

Brad
Brad's comment got me thinking that perhaps the hanks / roller choices will at times depend on the length of the inner stay vs. the length of the outer one.

I think, if it is a tall stay (say e.g. to the upper spreader in a two spreader rig) then the furling way may at times be better - so that the sail, that will probably be pretty much a high wind all-rounder can be used both all-out and furled to a desired size.

Then again, in a set-up where the inner forestay is relatively short (e.g. it is attached towards half-mast height) the sail flown on it will most likely be a real bad weather, high cut basher. Then the way to go could be to use a hook-in stay and a hank-on sail. Such small sails are easy to hoist and douse from the cockpit if only a down-haul is used.

b.
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